Which film for no flah-gig/concert photos?

[Helen B]

Here's a rough idea of what 'pushing' means when applied to colour negative film.

C-41 is a standardised process, with a standard development time. The development time can be increased to give more development - which can be called pushing. Just as there is a standard time for normal development there are standard times for push processing, and they are called 'push 1', 'push 2', 'push 3' etc. These are the nominal speed increases that can be expected in the midtones. This suggests that an ISO 800 film should be exposed at EI 1600 if it is given 'push 1' development.

Different films behave in different ways, however, and many of us prefer to use lower meter settings than the 'push' number would suggest when using colour negative film. For example, I don't bother with push 1 development of colour negative, and go straight to push 2, rating Fuji Pro 800Z at about EI 1600 and Portra 800 at about EI 2000. (I don't use either film at higher than the box speed without push development)

It's a different matter with colour reversal ('slide') film. That has a much lower dynamic range, and the optimum meter setting is likely to be close to the nominal push rating - ie if you use ISO 400 film with push 1 development it is probably best to set your meter to EI 800.

There may be a colour temperature issue. All currently available still colour negative film is balanced for daylight, and if you use it in tungsten light it will have to be corrected in post if a blue correction filter has not been used on the lens - these lose two stops of light.

If you have given barely adequate exposure and haven't used a blue filter you may have difficulty getting a good colour balance in the shadows. Fortunately at most gigs it isn't important for really accurate colour balance to be obtained in the shadows.

Colour negative film tends to be more grainy in the shadows, and the blue sensitive layer tends to be the grainiest layer. These two effects mean that daylight film exposed in tungsten light without a correction filter will have gritty blue shadows. You either learn to like it, give plenty of exposure (hence my lowering of EI from the nominal push rating by about one stop) or switch to another medium...

Best,
Helen

 

[Battou]

They do exist, I have two of them and a third one just bought in transit
Sears M-42 50mm 1.7
Chinion M-42 55mm 1.7
Minolta MD 50 1.7

Don't forget the legendary Pentax K-mount 50mm f/1.7 Fantastic lens, and super cheap!

Oh yes I am fully aware of it's existance...Sadly, I don't have one and I was just listing the ones I have and can show if need be. I tend to be precautionary like that at times.

 

[ksmattfish]

Sadly, I don't have one...

Keh has the various models from $50 to $80, but I see them all the time at flea markets usually going for about $30 attached to a camera!

 

[a_spaceman]

Here's a rough idea of what 'pushing' means when applied to colour negative film.

C-41 is a standardised process, with a standard development time. The development time can be increased to give more development - which can be called pushing. Just as there is a standard time for normal development there are standard times for push processing, and they are called 'push 1', 'push 2', 'push 3' etc. These are the nominal speed increases that can be expected in the midtones. This suggests that an ISO 800 film should be exposed at EI 1600 if it is given 'push 1' development.

Different films behave in different ways, however, and many of us prefer to use lower meter settings than the 'push' number would suggest when using colour negative film. For example, I don't bother with push 1 development of colour negative, and go straight to push 2, rating Fuji Pro 800Z at about EI 1600 and Portra 800 at about EI 2000. (I don't use either film at higher than the box speed without push development)

It's a different matter with colour reversal ('slide') film. That has a much lower dynamic range, and the optimum meter setting is likely to be close to the nominal push rating - ie if you use ISO 400 film with push 1 development it is probably best to set your meter to EI 800.

There may be a colour temperature issue. All currently available still colour negative film is balanced for daylight, and if you use it in tungsten light it will have to be corrected in post if a blue correction filter has not been used on the lens - these lose two stops of light.

If you have given barely adequate exposure and haven't used a blue filter you may have difficulty getting a good colour balance in the shadows. Fortunately at most gigs it isn't important for really accurate colour balance to be obtained in the shadows.

Colour negative film tends to be more grainy in the shadows, and the blue sensitive layer tends to be the grainiest layer. These two effects mean that daylight film exposed in tungsten light without a correction filter will have gritty blue shadows. You either learn to like it, give plenty of exposure (hence my lowering of EI from the nominal push rating by about one stop) or switch to another medium...

Best,
Helen

thanks a lot.
may i add a couple further questions?
when you say EI is it the asa indicator on the camera? if i set it unaccordingly to the film i'm using and then develop without pushing nor pulling what kind of changes do i get in the photo? does it make any sense?
once again, thanks a lot!
a.

 

[randerson07]

thanks a lot.
may i add a couple further questions?
when you say EI is it the asa indicator on the camera? if i set it unaccordingly to the film i'm using and then develop without pushing nor pulling what kind of changes do i get in the photo? does it make any sense?
once again, thanks a lot!
a.

If you take a 400 speed film and rate your camera at 800 and make no changes to the development, your not pushing, your underexposing by 1 stop. If you rate that 400 film at 200 and make no dev changes then your over exposing by 1 stop, not pulling.

Is that what your looking for?

 

[a_spaceman]

If you take a 400 speed film and rate your camera at 800 and make no changes to the development, your not pushing, your underexposing by 1 stop. If you rate that 400 film at 200 and make no dev changes then your over exposing by 1 stop, not pulling.

Is that what your looking for?

yes!
was wandering how the camera rate affects the photos and that's one clear, concise answer!
it also makes helen's post clearer to me. not that she provided a bad explanation, i just didn't have the right clues to grasp it.
now i guess it's up to me to find out how much difference one step makes...!

 

[a_spaceman]

If I were doing it today I think that I would go with Fuji Superia 800 and when I got there make a decision whether to push it when I metered the lighting.

is there a way to meter the lighting with the 101?

 

[randerson07]

What I would do is set your camera too box speed of your film, setup like your going to take a shot and set your shutter and aperture to make a proper exposure. Now with the proper exposure set do you have a fast enough shutter speed to stop blur? do you have the Depth of Field your looking for? If not pushing will help you achieve what your looking for.

 

[Rem]

thanks to you both for the feedback!
i yet have to get friendly with high iso films, so i'm not too sure how much different are 400, 800 and 1600 as i never used any of these..!

I find the current 800's to be quite acceptable. If I'm shooting my 300 f 4 tele then 800 is difficult unless I can brace on something. 1600 helps a lot then, but i's a bit grainy. Underexposures will bring out the grain more.
My 135 1.8 is my "concert" lens. It's decent with 400, better with 800.
I used to push Tri-X b+w to 1200 or 1600 wih a developer called Diafine. Not sure they still make it but it was cool

 

[Rem]

is there a way to meter the lighting with the 101?

My camera was an old Mamiya which..handy..had spot metering. I'd scan around the scene and watch the meter needle swing as I aimed at the bright and dark areas-then I'd look to meter something MEDIUM. Generally..with my 135 1.8 I'd be shooting wide open and at 1/125 with 800. With the 50 1.4 I could hold at 1/30 ....so 400 film would be okay. Stage lights vary. Not only with venues-but also minute to minute. When there's a lot of red it's gonna cost you an F stop and will come out pretty monochrome. White and blue lights will give more "real" color range. Concert shots are tricky with a wide meter pattern as you often have very dark background and some rather bright highlights..a lot of contrast. Interesting....that 135 1.8 is rather low contrast wide open so it actually helps compensate. IF you can get up close...that helps a LOT, you not only get a closer more dramatic shot but it's way easier to meter as you don't get as much dark background in the frame.