Who see's the beauty in Photography?

jbylake · Sep 23, 2009

You know, I was just going over some of the shots posted, and something dawned on me, that I wonder if any other of you have thought about, also.

We see really beautiful, well composed, and technically difficult photo's here. Some people C & C, and point out mistakes, some just don't have anything good to say, and other's, well...they, like me, just enjoy looking, and thinking to themselves, man, that was cool, wish I'd thought about trying this or that.

But that's all pretty moot. Because here's my point.

Take for example an extremely talent guitarist. Several come to mind: Steve Vai, Phil Keaggy, the late Tommy Bolin, and the list could just go on almost infinitly.

People who enjoy music, but have no knowledge of the guitar, can listen to the great guitarists, no matter what genre, will never notice when the guitarist makes a mistake, and believe me, they all do once in a while, it's an art, not a perfect science.

Makes me wonder, if the non-photo public really notices the difference from a good shot, and a really wonderful shot. I really doubt it. The harshest critic's are going to be from Pro's, or those who are Pro's in their own minds. Either way...just a random thought....

Not that I'm trying to spawn any debate of any type, I'm just curious, what others might think.

J.:mrgreen:

PhotoXopher · Sep 23, 2009

I think for the most part they see them as nice photos, however in some of them they might think something is a little off but not realize what it is - still a nice photo and they move on.

dtzitko · Sep 23, 2009

I get it man. It makes me wonder why people on here can't just appreciate somebody's photo from time to time. Example, if I start a thread saying, "Hey check this photo out I took earlier today. I thought it was kind of cool."

Then everybody and their brother chimes in saying, your crop could come in a bit, too saturated, too much contrast, etc. Hell, just appreciate somebody's shot for once. It may not be professional quality, but most of the stuff I've seen on here is acceptable enough to just look at and say, "Cool". Or rad, neat, good job, or whatever it is you say.

To compare your music analogy, I love music. I know very little about how to play music, but I feel I have a good hear for predicting melodies and beats and kind of understanding how it flows. I can appreciate a good song, riff, lyric, or whatever and not nit pick it. I kind of wish more people were like that and less critical all the time. Yes, criticism is good, but we don't need it all the time. Appreciate things every once in a while.

PhotoXopher · Sep 23, 2009

^ That's what the 'just for fun' forum is for here.

Big Mike · Sep 23, 2009

I think you're right. 'Joe public' probably doens't appreciate a good photo on the same level as someone who knows (or can guess) what went into making it. However, they probably know when they are looking at a good shot, they just don't know why they like it (or why it's good etc).

That being said, this is art and there isn't always a rhyme & reason for why people like things. Have you ever looked through someone's (non photographer) old photo album? Not to mention the millions of digital images being snapped everyday.
It seems to me that half the shots are blurry, either from being out of focus or shot with slow shutter speeds. Most of them have boring compositions and otherwise poor elements. But as long as they have some emotional attachment for people, they will be cherished.

ottor · Sep 23, 2009

The music anology is 'right on' ..... I'm a blues guitarist - and I love to play for groups of "Non-musicians" because they get the "Big Picture"... they hear what pleases them .. not the technical stuff that another musician will pick out, (and apart) from your performance..

Non-Photographers will look at a picture and it will either please them, or not... it will either be an 'interesting photo', or it will just earn a glance... I have tons of friends that tell me that some of my landscape shots should be in magazines ... "I'm thinking... "Yea, Popular Mechanics.." - but it's because they see nice colors, an interesting subject, and a sharp image... I see, as well as others who are in the hobby, a poor crop; totally blown DOF; and the wrong perspective... it's all relative..

Chiller · Sep 23, 2009

When I played drums in my day, I did the club circuit. I had many people come up to comment on my style of drumming, and even tho I held my own on the drums, I never took a lesson. But it was not only non musicians, but also muscians that commented on the music.
Like photography, I get the same response. I have never had a lesson, never want one, cause I want my photos to be my vision. Most of the people who have purchased my photos, have been non photographers.
Funny, cause recently, I have been asked to shoot bands in clubs. :lmao::lmao: Sort of went full circle eh? But when I shoot the bands, I knew what it was like to be up there, and knew the images I wanted when I was in a band, and a photographer would photograph us. The odd thing about this whole gig is, after a shoot, I will give the bands the photos, and the images I thought were crappy, they totally loved. :er:
I also recently, had a bed and breakfest purchase 3 images for their lobby. I felt two of the three to be my weakest on my web site. I think it depends on the viewer. On the forums, people can be critical of every mistake. Hell, I have even walked past photos in a mall, of say, something happening in the neighborhood, and gone....damn, dude could have composted that different. :lmao::lmao: After a quick kick in my arse by my own foot, I think....well, his photo is displayed on a 36x48 board for everyone to see...what are my photos doing.

alexanderdel · Sep 23, 2009

I really think you're right. I find it nice sometimes to just look at a picture and think, "wow, that's really cool". It really sucks that people can't lay aside the technical details and appreciate the fact that, that photo means something to someone and they took the time to snap the shot and upload it to share with us.
This little things need to be appreciated sometimes.

But then again I agree with NOYZE, upload these photos there so they can be appreciated as just a nice photo.

MelissaMarieImagery · Sep 24, 2009

Good analogy with the guitarist Vs photographer. It puts it into perspective. I have always had the same belief

c.cloudwalker · Sep 24, 2009

I basically do agree with you but as a photographer/artist who once also worked in music as an audio engineer, I find your music analogy somewhat amusing. For several reasons.

1/ if there was a music forum where you could post your latest creation to be C&Ced, what do you think would happen? The musician members would just pick it apart. Some with good comments and others with stupid ones. Just like here.

2/ people who don't notice when a musician makes a mistake also rarely are the ones who know a great musician when they see one. True we all make mistakes but before you can recognize a mistake, you have to know what is not a mistake.

There was a very interesting experiment done in the metro of Washington DC. A world famous violinist played at one of the busiest stations of the system the day before he was giving a concert in town. 99% of people walked by without a second glance. Probably just a bum.

3/ Your choice of Steve Vai as your first example is great. I love the guy. But how many people in the general public know his music? If they've even heard of him that his. You should have picked Frank Zappa. His case is even worse. One of the most creative musician/composer of the last few generations who has worked in just about every genre of music is known mainly, by most of the few people who know him, for funny songs about jewish princesses, dancing fools, baby snakes and yellow snow

Oh, a couple of his fans remember him for taking on Gore's wife.

If you are here to show a snapshot of your cute dog and have everyone go "what a cute dog" you're in the wrong forum. Most people are here to try and improve their photo skills and they will not improve with people telling them how wonderful their snapshot is. I find your thread actually insulting to the "good " photographers here who try to help the ones that are not so good.

Yes, some wannabes give stupid advice. It's a forum. Get over it. Some of the good people get goofy at times. Get over it.

And you may want to start by getting real. "Not that I'm trying to spawn any debate of any type..." Really? So what exactly were you thinking of?

Considering the few responses you got, I would think members must be tired from the other flame wars going on the last couple days :lmao:

i Kandi Photography · Sep 24, 2009

jbylake said:
You know, I was just going over some of the shots posted, and something dawned on me, that I wonder if any other of you have thought about, also.

We see really beautiful, well composed, and technically difficult photo's here. Some people C & C, and point out mistakes, some just don't have anything good to say, and other's, well...they, like me, just enjoy looking, and thinking to themselves, man, that was cool, wish I'd thought about trying this or that.

But that's all pretty moot. Because here's my point.

Take for example an extremely talent guitarist. Several come to mind: Steve Vai, Phil Keaggy, the late Tommy Bolin, and the list could just go on almost infinitly.

People who enjoy music, but have no knowledge of the guitar, can listen to the great guitarists, no matter what genre, will never notice when the guitarist makes a mistake, and believe me, they all do once in a while, it's an art, not a perfect science.

Makes me wonder, if the non-photo public really notices the difference from a good shot, and a really wonderful shot. I really doubt it. The harshest critic's are going to be from Pro's, or those who are Pro's in their own minds. Either way...just a random thought....

Not that I'm trying to spawn any debate of any type, I'm just curious, what others might think.

J.:mrgreen:

I see what you're saying. Unless a photo is just extremely horrendous and not creative at all, I will not comment on it in a negative way nor will I critique it. I believe in just saying positive things about it. I feel that photography is different in everyone's eyes, such as beauty, and a style I may like may not be style another likes. So by critiquing his/her work if the photos are creative and just not my taste is not helping him. It's basically just me giving an opinion on the "style" rather his ability as a photographer.

jbylake · Sep 24, 2009

c.cloudwalker said:
I basically do agree with you but as a photographer/artist who once also worked in music as an audio engineer, I find your music analogy somewhat amusing. For several reasons.

1/ if there was a music forum where you could post your latest creation to be C&Ced, what do you think would happen? The musician members would just pick it apart. Some with good comments and others with stupid ones. Just like here.

2/ people who don't notice when a musician makes a mistake also rarely are the ones who know a great musician when they see one. True we all make mistakes but before you can recognize a mistake, you have to know what is not a mistake.

There was a very interesting experiment done in the metro of Washington DC. A world famous violinist played at one of the busiest stations of the system the day before he was giving a concert in town. 99% of people walked by without a second glance. Probably just a bum.

3/ Your choice of Steve Vai as your first example is great. I love the guy. But how many people in the general public know his music? If they've even heard of him that his. You should have picked Frank Zappa. His case is even worse. One of the most creative musician/composer of the last few generations who has worked in just about every genre of music is known mainly, by most of the few people who know him, for funny songs about jewish princesses, dancing fools, baby snakes and yellow snow Oh, a couple of his fans remember him for taking on Gore's wife.

If you are here to show a snapshot of your cute dog and have everyone go "what a cute dog" you're in the wrong forum. Most people are here to try and improve their photo skills and they will not improve with people telling them how wonderful their snapshot is. I find your thread actually insulting to the "good " photographers here who try to help the ones that are not so good.

Yes, some wannabes give stupid advice. It's a forum. Get over it. Some of the good people get goofy at times. Get over it.

And you may want to start by getting real. "Not that I'm trying to spawn any debate of any type..." Really? So what exactly were you thinking of?

Considering the few responses you got, I would think members must be tired from the other flame wars going on the last couple days :lmao:

Nah...I think you got my post all wrong. Probably my fault, I'm not the greatest communicator in the world.

I don't know where in the world from the origional post that you figured that I was trying to spark a flame war.

Next, sure people come here for C&C, to get advice, and to learn..that's what this forum is partly if not mostly about.

As far as a few responses? Completely moot to me. I figured the people that responded had something to say on the subject, and the rest, just weren't interested. I'm not trying to rally troops for an election, just expressing some ideas. Maybe I should get ACORN involved if I was soliciting responses in large numbers :lol:

Basically, what I was trying to state, and quite possibly failed to do so, well to make another analogy, the surfer looking for the perfect wave, we often look and work long and hard to get that "perfect" shot. And the only people who are going to "get" it, are other photographers. Most people are just going to say cool, some times even if it's a crappy shot.

Weird, as you stated there was only a few responses, and none thought anyone was trying to start a flame war. Except you. Your "If you're here to show a snapshot of your cute dog" came totally out of left field. Then you came up with an excellent anecdotal story about the violin player that was basically the same thing I was saying. Go figure... Oh, and I'm a zappa fan also...

Cheers,

J.:mrgreen:

Hooligan Dan · Sep 24, 2009

I think the judging at any local fair's photography contest proves that the general public(in this case judges), like fans of great guitarists who don't know know anything about playing guitar, don't pick up on mistakes in photos or the technical difficulty or skill behind a photo.

Derrel · Sep 24, 2009

What c.cloudwalker said:thumbup:

Wayyyy to many people want "attaboys" and "nice shot!" on photos that have been made within their first week of d-slr ownership. Far too many people don't understand when to hold their camera vertically, or why their snapshots of things dear to them are not showered with accolades. If one has studied and practiced a subject for years, one becomes less impressed with the efforts of beginners in that same field.

Is the piano recital of a violin beginner truly as beautiful as the music a concert violinist plays? Which one commits more fundamental flaws? photography is a lot like that--the web and the world itself is FILLED with absolutely gorgeous, virtually flawless images, made by experienced shooters.
Beginner-level photography is hard to get excited about these days.

jbylake · Sep 24, 2009

Derrel said:
What c.cloudwalker said:thumbup:

Wayyyy to many people want "attaboys" and "nice shot!" on photos that have been made within their first week of d-slr ownership. Far too many people don't understand when to hold their camera vertically, or why their snapshots of things dear to them are not showered with accolades. If one has studied and practiced a subject for years, one becomes less impressed with the efforts of beginners in that same field.

Is the piano recital of a violin beginner truly as beautiful as the music a concert violinist plays? Which one commits more fundamental flaws? photography is a lot like that--the web and the world itself is FILLED with absolutely gorgeous, virtually flawless images, made by experienced shooters.
Beginner-level photography is hard to get excited about these days.

Did you even read the origional post? It's totally apples and oranges here.
while most of what you said, if not all, is true. However you, and c.cloudwalker have read something into this thread that's not there. In fact I just cannot find how you could have be so off-track from my OP in this thread.

It has nothing to be with new people with camera's vs. pro's. Although I might point out that you weren't born with a camera in your hand either.

But, again, this thread, when started has nothing to do with your, or c.clouders response. It's like I talked about jogging, and you moved the thread to mining for ore on mars. How did it get so far off track. Maybe it's best we kill it now before it becomes a discussion over CIA interrogation techniques. :lol: