Why do we say "strobe" ?

[astroNikon]

... But our flash units do not do this repeating function. They simply are not strobes.

ummm .... see my post above :scratch:

http://www.thomaspiteraphotography.com/techniques-reviews/stroboscopic-flash-with-speedlights/

how do i access stroboscopic flash?

Many of today’s high-end Speedlights such as the Canon 580EX/EX II and Nikon SB-800/900 have this feature built in. Canon refers to this feature as Multi Mode while Nikon calls it Repeating Flash (RPT). We’ll be using a Nikon SB-800 for this tutorial, but all of these concepts can be applied to any flash with a stroboscopic mode.

http://prairielightimages.com/2010/...he-repeating-flash-feature-on-the-nikon-d300/

 

[Derrel]

strobe

noun \ˈstrōb\

Definition of STROBE

1
: stroboscope

2
: a device that utilizes a flashtube for high-speed illumination (as in photography)

3
: flashtube

According to an on-line dictionary, the first known use of the word "strobe" dates to 1942. The first "Strobonar" electronic flash unit for regular cameras appeared in like 1951..so..within less than a decade, the use of the word "strobe" to mean single-shot, flashTUBE-based, electronic flash for still camera use entered not only the lexicon, but also became the root word in a brand-new trademarked product category...the strobe light. Not to be pedantically confused with a stroboscope nearly three-quarters of a century later...

The basic definition requires a flashtube to be used to produce the illumination. The basic definition does NOT mean that ONLY a repeating flash be emitted...it requires a TUBE-based flash system...not one that burns up a bunch of metallic filament, but a flash system that produces a brief flash of light by means of running an electric current through a TUBE which is filled with gas...Which is exactly what Honeywell premiered in the early 1950's with the Strobonar series of electronic flash units for still photography.

The Original Post asked, "Just being argumentative for fun, but why do some say "strobe" when they obviously mean "flash" ?"

Ummm, well:

Why do people say "flash" when what they really mean is 1) magneto-generated electric spark? (1850-ish)
Why do people say "flash" when what they really mean is 2) magnesium flash powder in a tray?
Why do people say "flash" when what they really mean is 3) flash bulbs? (Invented in 1928)
Why do people say "flash" when what they really mean is 4) flash cubes?

"Flash" photos have been made by basically five different methods....magneto, flash powder, flash bulbs, flashcubes, and electronic flash units of various sizes.

"Strobe" on the other hand, is created only by means of using a flashtube...so, in a way, the use of the term "Strobe" actually is more-descriptive than the vague term "flash". From 1928 to about 1975, the chances are that over 99% of all flash-lighted photographs were made by BULB-based flash systems. I'm only 51 years old, and I can still remember the burning feeling of flashbulbs and flashcube flash photos being taken of me and my siblings...that wonderful,lingering feel on the ole' retinas...

 

[astroNikon]

Now that I've learned alot more about the Repeating Strobe function of my Speedlights .... I've got some nifty ideas.

 

[Designer]

"flash" - failing to warn your workmate that you are about to strike an arc, thereby causing him to be fully exposed to the bright light of an arc. (a bad thing)
"flash" - momentarily opening or removing an article of clothing to expose a part of one's anatomy that is normally covered. (also a bad thing)
"flash" - a bit of material that extrudes from between mating parts of a mold which then has to be removed. (a bad thing)
"flash" - a moment of mental clarity when an idea takes form, or when a concept is understood. (usually a good thing)
"flash" - an imaginary super hero who was possessed of fantastic speed. (probably a good thing)

 

[Designer]

But our flash units do not do this repeating function. They simply are not strobes.

Mine does. p.C-18 "Repeating flash mode" - "..creating stroboscopic multiple-exposure effects."

 

[Designer]

Are we just about finished with this yet?

:banghead:

 

[astroNikon]

"flash" - a moment of mental clarity when an idea takes form, or when a concept is understood. (usually a good thing)

case in point ...

Now that I've learned alot more about the Repeating Strobe function of my Speedlights .... I've got some nifty ideas.

 

[WayneF]

... But our flash units do not do this repeating function. They simply are not strobes.

ummm .... see my post above :scratch:

...

Many of today’s high-end Speedlights such as the Canon 580EX/EX II and Nikon SB-800/900 have this feature built in. Canon refers to this feature as Multi Mode while Nikon calls it Repeating Flash (RPT). We’ll be using a Nikon SB-800 for this tutorial, but all of these concepts can be applied to any flash with a stroboscopic mode.

Many is the wrong word... Specifically two of Nikons modern models, SB-800 and SB-900/910 (only SB-910 is in current production). Most models do not have that, but sometimes the one top end model did. I have two SB-800, and am aware of it, played with it a couple of times, but that is not how anyone would shoot snapshots or portraits or whatever. It seems wrong to call flash strobe (since most cannot) and it seems wrong to call strobe flash (since most cannot).
I think we ought to call it as it is. Also one speedlght actually with the feature certainly is no reason to specifically call studio lights (none of which have that function) to be strobes.

According to an on-line dictionary, the first known use of the word "strobe" dates to 1942. The first "Strobonar" electronic flash unit for regular cameras appeared in like 1951..

Internet is like that, but obviously your source missed Edgertons many publications. He was several years earlier, and basically, he invented use of the flash tube for photograpy (using fast capacitor discharge, but not using transistors in 1934 however). Few of us were involved until after transistors. Edgerton was an extremely big deal, he also founded EG&G. (instrumental in WWII and later).

Strobonar was just a later exploitive name, just a brand name, it had no transistors in 1950 either, and it had no stroboscopic function. It did advance auto light sensor controlled flash, which improved after we had thyristors to control the flash.

Flash" photos have been made by basically five different methods....magneto, flash powder, flash bulbs, flashcubes, and electronic flash units of various sizes.

OK.. a flash makes a brief flash of light, which can "stop" motion. Strobe is many sequential flashes of light, which instead "slows motion", only seeing aliased partial motions. Ignition source seems not the difference. The repetition is the difference.

"Strobe" on the other hand, is created only by means of using a flashtube...so, in a way, the use of the term "Strobe" actually is more-descriptive than the vague term "flash". From 1928 to about 1975, the chances are that over 99% of all flash-lighted photographs were made by BULB-based flash systems.

Earliest fast flash photos used an electric spark gap, in air. It has nothing to do with the repetitive nature of stroboscope flash however.

Stroboscopic is certainly not limited to flashtubes or electronic flash. Any repeating flash can serve. Here is Muybridge in 1887, showing that horses have all four feet off of the ground at some point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-speed_photography

He used regular flash bulbs, many flash units spaced at distance on the track, with trip wires to trigger them. The stroboscopic idea is Repetition of flash.

It is no reason to also call flash bulbs strobes.

 

[astroNikon]

many / most / some does not equate "all" One cannot create a canned, fully binding non-wavering definition unless it includes all

so in the sake of argumentative fun

1 - write our own specific definition for it
2 - disregard other people's definition for it
3 - ignore items that don't fit into your definition
4 - keep your on specific definition no matter other information/ specifications / et all

sound good to me

go for it :thumbup:

I'll just call my Speedlight a flash that also can do Repeating Strobe functions to capture movement per Dr Edgerton's examples.
a
SFRSFDE strobe .. err .. speedlight .. or flash ..

 

[Scatterbrained]

................................................................ Also one speedlght actually with the feature certainly is no reason to specifically call studio lights (none of which have that function) to be strobes. ...............................
Strobonar was just a later exploitive name, just a brand name, it had no transistors in 1950 either, and it had no stroboscopic function. It did advance auto light sensor controlled flash, which improved after we had thyristors to control the flash..................................................

\
There are studio strobes that can fire off just as fast as your camera can shoot. They tend to be too expensive for the average hobbyist or retail level photographer to own however. Even my ABs will keeps up with the 3fps of my 5DII at the right power level. Not exactly the same as just a continuous strobe function, but pretty much the same effect.

So Strobinar is a trade name that fell into common use. If the entire point of the thread was why we use the term strobe, and that is it, why debate the semantics of the word? Doesn't seem to matter in so much as it wasn't what influenced the evolution of the term in photographic use. At some point it has to be accepted that the language is shaped by the people who use it. Are you going to go into a gay bar and tell the unhappy homosexual man at the bar that he isn't actually gay?

 

[WayneF]

There are studio strobes that can fire off just as fast as your camera can shoot. They tend to be too expensive for the average hobbyist or retail level photographer to own however. Even my ABs will keeps up with the 3fps of my 5DII at the right power level. Not exactly the same as just a continuous strobe function, but pretty much the same effect.

That's right... the stroboscopic effect is only due to the repetition. Flash bulbs can do it too, which was just shown, if we can trigger them fast enough. It would still sound really dumb in general to call flash bulbs strobes however. And the repetition is no factor at all regarding how most photographs are taken (most: nearly 100%).

So Strobinar is a trade name that fell into common use. If the entire point of the thread was why we use the term strobe, and that is it, why debate the semantics of the word? Doesn't seem to matter in so much as it wasn't what influenced the evolution of the term in photographic use. At some point it has to be accepted that the language is shaped by the people who use it.

Right, language usage is important, but which is normally much less factor (less options) on technical subjects which can be carefully defined. There are a few issues though, like dpi vs ppi.

 

[Designer]

That's right... the stroboscopic effect is only due to the repetition. Flash bulbs can do it too,

???????

There are a few issues though, like dpi vs ppi.

Oh, puleeze! Let's not start another one!

 

[Derrel]

The term "speedlight"...now, that's a fairly new word...I NEVER ONCE heard the word "speedlight" until I would say, oh, the 2000's...and I think it came about as a way to differentiate small, battery-powered electronic flash units from studio strobes....

 

[WayneF]

The term "speedlight"...now, that's a fairly new word...I NEVER ONCE heard the word "speedlight" until I would say, oh, the 2000's...and I think it came about as a way to differentiate small, battery-powered electronic flash units from studio strobes....

Speedlight is an older term. It is a Nikon trademark (Canon used Speedlite, and the others are flashes). The Nikon SB-10 about 1978, the SB-10 manual says Speedlight on cover. SB-11 was an early TTL speedlight, early 90s. SB-4 was an earlier Speedlight, first with automatic control (F2 camera, 1971). And the SB-E speedlight for FE/FM cameras. I'm thinking all SB were called speedlights.

They were not speedlights because they are small and battery powered. It was because the thyristor-type truncation design makes them be tremendously fast at low power, suitable for high speed photography, the standard solution. Because studio flash tend to be big and slow. Studio flash are doubly unworthy for the term strobe, 1 since they cannot begin to do much of it even if somehow sequentially triggered, and 2 because they are not so triggered. Here is one sample of the speed differences: Capability of flash units for high speed photography. (and the Alienbees are relatively fast, as such things go).

 

[Derrel]

Huh...I had not actually heard the word "speedlight" until it became sort of "internet famous". It was not used in the photo magazines or in online discussions back in the Usenet days.

Wondering if you're going to add an IGBT monolight section to your collection of excellent articles on flash?

Anyway...tomorrow I am doing a post, asking WHY the British pronounce the world "aluminum" AS IF IT it were spelled al-u-min-eeee-um"!!!!!!! One of my pet peeves. Well, that and of course, also their use of the plural "maths".