Why don't people like program mode?

[Socrates]

Here's my argument, usayit. If you're in P mode and you suddenly want a smaller aperture, how long will that take you?

A tenth of a second to switch to aperture mode and then a second or two to adjust as desired.

 

[Socrates]

Sorry but i can't stand Rockwell and this is another phrase of his that just annoys me.
What it should read is 'While you knob twiddlers are fiddling with shutter speeds and aperture in M mode, my camera is busy taking average photos in P mode!'

I know everyone sees photography differently and i have nothing against people shooting in P mode if it suits thier style of photography....

However, the whole point of photography for me is that i am testing myself... even if my little niece is running around, i want to ask myself 'did i set that up right for the shot?'.... and YES it is hit and miss... thats what photography as a hobby is all about.... its like fishing, its the buzz of getting that one golden opportunity..

If i just used P mode all the time, i may as well buy one of those HD video cameras and next time my niece is around... leave it running for 2 hours... then look for a good frame when watching it back and voila... i created a 'masterpiece' as rockwell puts it... :roll:

My advice is.. learn to love your camera... learn from your mistakes... know that when you get a great image it was you who was in control... or even when you get a 'happy accident' (an image that came out better than you thought) know that it is YOU who made the settings.

Everything that you said can be said about any automated mode in the camera. Clearly the only solution is to use full manual 100% of the time. Is that what you're proposing?

 

[usayit]

I'm with Socrates on that one.

By that train of logic, we should all be shooting with Spotmatics. Oh gasp... I forgot, Spotmatics have auto return mirror and TTL metering not to mention that fancy more compact format called 35mm negative. Nix that... we should all be shooting view cameras on silvered glass plates.

If the PERFECT exposure is f/5.6 @ 1/125, what does it matter whether it was derived using M, P, Tv, Av or any number of metering methods?

All this squibble over automation but most won't even consider a manual focusing camera/lens anymore....

 

[Socrates]

I'm with Socrates on that one.

By that train of logic, we should all be shooting with Spotmatics. Oh gasp... I forgot, Spotmatics have auto return mirror and TTL metering not to mention that fancy more compact format called 35mm negative. Nix that... we should all be shooting view cameras on silvered glass plates.

If the PERFECT exposure is f/5.6 @ 1/125, what does it matter whether it was derived using M, P, Tv, Av or any number of metering methods?

All this squibble over automation but most won't even consider a manual focusing camera/lens anymore....

I still have the "Honeywell Pentax" Spotmatic with f/1.4 lens that I bought in 1964. I shoot a small roll once/year just to confirm that it still works fine. I don't know if you remember but it was advertised as "the world's first automatic SLR" because of the auto-return mirror!

The Spotmatic also introduced the ability to automatically stop down the lens prior to opening the shutter. Previously, we relied on "preset" lenses. You would determine correct aperture and set a mechanical preset on the lens. Then, open wide to focus. When you're ready to take the shot, you stop the lens down to the preset value without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

By the way, the Spotmatic with lens sold for $400 in 1964 dollars! All that fancy automation wasn't cheap.

 

[Chris of Arabia]

If the PERFECT exposure is f/5.6 @ 1/125, what does it matter whether it was derived using M, P, Tv, Av or any number of metering methods?

To a point I'd agree entirely. The only thing to consider at that point is whether it provides the DoF/action freezing ability that the photographer has in mind for the shot.

P mode at the end of the day is just a tool. So long as its abilities are capable of delivering the end result the photographer is looking for, who cares - the same goes for Av, Tv, manual or any other mode. Only once it can't do that does the photog need to explore a little further.

FWIW, I learnt on a screw thread Practika with no meter and the guidelines off the back of a packet of Kodak.

These days I probably mostly use the P mode, anytime I decide I decide to get "serious", I'll get the Sekonic out.

 

[Alex_B]

The thing I learned in this thread is, that the P mode on a Nikon is something totally different from P on a Canon

 

[Arch]

Everything that you said can be said about any automated mode in the camera. Clearly the only solution is to use full manual 100% of the time. Is that what you're proposing?

Yes.

As i said this is how I see my hobby.

I'm with Socrates on that one.

By that train of logic, we should all be shooting with Spotmatics. Oh gasp... I forgot, Spotmatics have auto return mirror and TTL metering not to mention that fancy more compact format called 35mm negative. Nix that... we should all be shooting view cameras on silvered glass plates.

If the PERFECT exposure is f/5.6 @ 1/125, what does it matter whether it was derived using M, P, Tv, Av or any number of metering methods?

All this squibble over automation but most won't even consider a manual focusing camera/lens anymore....

This is exactly my point.... yes the perfect exposure may be f/5.6 @ 1/125... what matters is were YOU able to figure that out and get the shot you wanted... that is exactly what im saying... for me i prefer this challenge every time i pick up a camera... if you want the camera to do it for you that's your own preference.

 

[Alex_B]

This is exactly my point.... yes the perfect exposure may be f/5.6 @ 1/125... what matters is were YOU able to figure that out and get the shot you wanted...

But you DO look at the light meter, don't you? And the meter tells you how to expose, so why should the meter not tell the camera directly and make a suggestion? makes no difference for me since you can still alter that suggestion according to the lighting situation ... just as you might alter your first guess for you manual exposure which is derived from your meter reading as well.

 

[Arch]

But you DO look at the light meter, don't you? And the meter tells you how to expose, so why should the meter not tell the camera directly and make a suggestion? makes no difference for me since you can still alter that suggestion according to the lighting situation ... just as you might alter your first guess for you manual exposure which is derived from your meter reading as well.

True.. but as you can see from what i wrote originally, im not saying i don't have technology in my hands... if i were to deny everything it does for me i may as well sit and draw a pencil sketch ...what im saying is, is that i want to feel like im putting the most of myself into a picture.

 

[Alex_B]

True.. but as you can see from what i wrote originally, im not saying i don't have technology in my hands... if i were to deny everything it does for me i may as well sit and draw a pencil sketch ...what im saying is, is that i want to feel like im putting the most of myself into a picture.

I totally understand that., but I am saying that these half-auto modes actually are modes which only make a suggestion to the photographer. still the photographer does make the decision, so the amount of himself he puts into the image is about the same. at least that is my feeling

 

[usayit]

I still have the "Honeywell Pentax" Spotmatic with f/1.4 lens that I bought in 1964. I shoot a small roll once/year just to confirm that it still works fine. I don't know if you remember but it was advertised as "the world's first automatic SLR" because of the auto-return mirror!

Yeh.. being a pentax screwmount collector, I've got a cabinet full of Spotmatics. Here is the amazing thing.... almost all of them still work. I've got other cameras of similar vintage and many of them have died. Truly a wonderful cameras they are... they just don't make'm like they used to.

btw... the first auto-return camera from Pentax was the Asahiflex IIB (see below). The Spotmatic was advertised as the world's first automatic SLR since it had auto stop down and metering in addition to the auto-return mirror adopted from the Asahiflex IIB.

Oh yes.. my Asahiflex IIB also STILL WORKS! When I purchased it from a garage sale, I thought it would be just a paper weight to look at. It operates well enough that I used it to shoot my final project for a few photo classes in college... just so I can say I did.

My Asahiflex IIB and Black paint Spotmatic
http://www.silveredemulsions.com/Equipment/Collectibles/images/107714898.jpg
http://www.silveredemulsions.com/Equipment/Pentax/images/Equip_47_RT16.jpg

 

[DATAstrm]

I get the feeling that a large subset of the people bashing Program mode have never used it, and don't really know how it works.

I'm by no means a professional photographer, but I do think its important to know what all the modes on the camera can do!

On a Canon, Program mode can do everything (literally everything) that manual mode can.

In manual mode, you would meter, then the camera gives you a suggested aperature/speed based on the metering. Then you set those values. If you want a higher aperature, you dial that in, and at the same time reduce your shutter speed to maintain the same exposure right? In program mode, instead of having to dial in both the aperature and shutter, dialing up the aperature automatically dials down the shutter. So in essence, you can do the same thing, except faster!

Now, with manual you can over/underexpose. Lets say you have f4/60 and you want to overexpose by one stop (or 1/3 or whatever). You would open up the aperature, or increase the shutter time. Guess what? In program mode, you can do that too with the exposure compensation, which automatically will overexpose by 1/3 of a stop! You can still control whether it changes the aperature or shutters speed with 1 dial.

Manual does have some advantages. When you want to have consistent exposure for stiching panoramas, or you are in a studio with constant light settings, manual mode can save you time. Additionally, if you want to over/underexpose by more tan +/- 2 stops, you have to use manual because the EV compensation on your camera may not go that far.

Anyway, IMO neither mode is superior as far as the photos you are going to get. They both have the same capabilities. The only difference here is time. With P, you save time on varying lighting conditions. With Manual, you save time on unchanging lighting conditions. That's pretty much the main difference.

Just make sure you use/are familiar with something before bashing it =D I know Battou has already changed his statement to reflect this, and I respect that!

DATAstrm

 

[tron]

um if your picture looks good, who gives a **** what mode you used? okay mr. dbag on here might use full manual and think hes hot **** but it doesnt matter if his pics still look like dookie.

on the other hand, someone could use program and their pics could look fantastic.

call it an idiot setting if you will, some people. but remember who the real idiot is when some are done shooting while your old mind is feebly trying to contemplate what shutter speed is matching up with what fstop.

its personal preference. i happen to shoot in full manual 90% of the time but i dont go around bashing the hell out of people.

 

[roadkill]

that first part was supposed to be a quote

 

[SimplyMo]

who cares what mode another photographer is using anyway?!:scratch:

if it's something you're into--this program mode-- then why does it matter whether another photographer puts it down--and calls it "idiot mode"-..it's an opinion based assumption.. all that matters is what mode you are using and whether it is working well for you or not...



i almost always use manual mode, just because im comfortable with it.. i know exactly what's happening.. it's in my control