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Why is Peter Lik's work so valuable?

Nope, Cindy Sherman again pops up. $4 million a pop...all in a name.

That's what I mean. I'm sure that up to some point an artist's hardwork and diligence are what puts them on top and then after that they can coast on their notoriety.

Salvador Dali wrote his name on pieces of paper I believe and then sold them. Sure, Lik isn't quite THAT famous but I imagine it works the same way.

A mediocre Lik print will probably almost always outsell an incredible, once in lifetime, knock you off your feet print from some dude in Colorado.

Isn't the photography (and art) business something like 70% marketing and 30% actual photography/art? Lol
 
Well, Steve, if you feel that no-one was belittling his success, then let's blame that impression on my poor reading skills...

Works for me...

Ya know Steve, pgritz is one of the more respectful members of this forum, and is ALWAYS adding well thought out, positive posts to our threads. I think you might need to step off the forums for a few days and do a bit of self reflection, because you are adding alot of unnecessary negativity to thread after thread. Just saying...
 
Well, Steve, if you feel that no-one was belittling his success, then let's blame that impression on my poor reading skills...

Works for me...

Ya know Steve, pgritz is one of the more respectful members of this forum, and is ALWAYS adding well thought out, positive posts to our threads. I think you might need to step off the forums for a few days and do a bit of self reflection, because you are adding alot of unnecessary negativity to thread after thread. Just saying...

Well, maybe he'd be so kind as to point out where Lik's accomplishments have been "belittled". No one likes being accused of something they haven't done, so if there's been "belittling" going on, the fact that "one of the more respectful members" lays the accusation does not preclude him from the responsibility of providing an example of where it's happened, and that's all I'm asking for.

How that's a problem for you is truly a mystery.

Not caring for someone's work, or preferring someone else's work, is hardly "belittling", but that's all I've seen done here. No one has belittled anything. If pgritz wants to chalk it all up to what he refers to as his poor reading skills, who am I to argue?
 
I think the initial post set the "belittling" tone of this thread, "Is it all in the name?" I suspect it is the man dedicating a lifetime to his profession that is responsible for success, not the name.

I imagine that there is a tipping point somewhere when it comes to art lol.

Nope, Cindy Sherman again pops up. $4 million a pix...all in a name.

Look at the $900 ebay Kenna link above...no Kenna name and it is $15. I've been around many a photo collector. They buy garbage if it has a name. No name and they don't want it for free.

I think some of the photogs here may be jealous. They would like to make millions as well. Maybe that is the belittling issue.I think Lik is a talented photog and a great biz man. Maybe he is the richest photog in the world, surpassing Annie L?

Actually Annie is broke right now believe it or not.

I'm semi new to this particular forum, but I have to say, my first impression isn't good. I responded with a very well thought out and long response that took me about an hour to compose, and with all the bickering I don't think anyone even saw it to respond to.

I don't mean to be all "oh look at me" but I thought I made some very good points, and was trying to help answer the OP's question, but I wonder did anyone even see it? Do people agree or do they think I'm wrong, and why?

Sorry, I just expected at least a little response.

I'm really annoyed with the 2 or 3 of you who are fighting with each other, take it somewhere else, it's not at all helpful to the OP and is clogging up this discussion with people who actually care about discussing it over talking **** to each other.

Sorry but I would like to talk about this issue. Thanks and sorry if this is harsh.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I deal with museums continually in the US and worldwide, so I know a little about what I'm talking about.

http://photobookclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/stephen_shore_chevron.jpg

Look at a recent Milwaukee Art Museum purchase. Without the name, it is garabge.


http://whitney.org/image_columns/0001/6700/91.100.3_eggleston_imageprimacy_compressed_600.jpg

William Eggelston is in a number of important collections and museums...nothing but garbage...it is all in a name.


http://www.pdngallery.com/20years/art/20mostinfluential/goldin.jpg

Nan Goldin is another big name snapshot shooter. Take away the Goldin name and the $ dissapears.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hBqdPD_7M_Y/S-wPyFEoVSI/AAAAAAAALEc/wnYEW3lrSUo/s800/CRI_3177.jpg

I love this photog, but everything this photog shot was not great. Add the name and it becomes gold!


http://www.stephendaitergallery.com...rossman_Untitled_birds_over_water_1902_67.jpg

Time and time again we see photos in museums and collections that are nothing, but for the name.


http://images.metmuseum.org/CRDImages/ph/web-highlight/DP242682.jpg

Don't you wish you were this good! then you could be in the Met too!! Without the famous name, any museum would throw you out on your ass if you tried to sell it to a museum. (Discounting any historical worth.)


Only a numskull would say Lik has no talent. But to settle this question, ask yourself this.

Would you would get a million dollars for this shot?

http://www.peterlikexposed.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/02_ONE.jpg

Or would a no name photog like you be lucky to get $50 for it at a craft fair? With no name, you can't sell it anyplace else, maybe ebay. At ebay it would bring $15 - $25...if your lucky. If you don't belive me, take your protfolio around to the big name galleries in NY. Offer them your photos for $75 each and see how far you get with no name.

Devoting your life to an art means nothing. Great work means nothing. (At least means nothing when it comes to the crazy priced art. Great work wil always sell for nominal $.)

Why do you think an auction listing will say 'listed artist?' It all rests on name recognition. For even bad and terrible work will be worth a fortune with name recognition. It is all in the fudging NAME!!
 
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I imagine that there is a tipping point somewhere when it comes to art lol.

Nope, Cindy Sherman again pops up. $4 million a pix...all in a name.

Look at the $900 ebay Kenna link above...no Kenna name and it is $15. I've been around many a photo collector. They buy garbage if it has a name. No name and they don't want it for free.

I think some of the photogs here may be jealous. They would like to make millions as well. Maybe that is the belittling issue.I think Lik is a talented photog and a great biz man. Maybe he is the richest photog in the world, surpassing Annie L?

Actually Annie is broke right now believe it or not.

I'm semi new to this particular forum, but I have to say, my first impression isn't good. I responded with a very well thought out and long response that took me about an hour to compose, and with all the bickering I don't think anyone even saw it to respond to.

I don't mean to be all "oh look at me" but I thought I made some very good points, and was trying to help answer the OP's question, but I wonder did anyone even see it? Do people agree or do they think I'm wrong, and why?

Sorry, I just expected at least a little response.

I'm really annoyed with the 2 or 3 of you who are fighting with each other, take it somewhere else, it's not at all helpful to the OP and is clogging up this discussion with people who actually care about discussing it over talking **** to each other.

Sorry but I would like to talk about this issue. Thanks and sorry if this is harsh.


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk


Stone, that is just how it goes. Not just this forum.

Just invest enough time in your posts so that you will still be happy if no one replies to it.

Can't belive Annie is broke, just can't unless it was due to some other issue.
 
You guys are pretty funny. I read through all the posts and I have a few points to make.

First off, have you researched the history? Do you know HOW he got where he was? He spent x amount of years living in a Van driving around taking pictures around the country with no money at all, he struggled and perfected his imagery, THEN he got big.

I visited his gallery in Key West Florida on my 2010 Kodachrome adventure, this was before he had his TV show and was a household name. His shots were certainly something to behold.

I don't think he's so much more amazing than many others, but he's perfected his showcase, the image, the frame, the selection of images that come with each other. All meld perfectly. There's an art to display as well.

I also think his images cost well over $750 as I recall them being in the $1,000-$10,000 range, but those were limited editions etc.

He shoots a lot on film, I suspect Velvia for a lot of it, and what new stuff he shoots on digital I'm sure he mimics a Velvia like profile. I wouldn't consider that cheating, just using the tools you have.

He has invested a LOT of years taking images, he doesn't display the mediocre ones as someone pointed out.

He does ALL his own printing, he doesn't outsource anything, he has his own facility for this and makes sure each image is to HIS specifications.

I also have a perspective I would like to share. If I live in NY, and after training as a photographer for 10 years I research and buy a very specific panoramic camera (in the $4,000 used or $10,000 new range), travel to the Grand Canyon, take a really beautiful sunset image, risk my life hanging on the side of a cliff to get the shot, fly home, develop that and perfectly print that image. How much money have I invested in that image, THOUSANDS, tens of thousands of dollars to get that image, and if I sell it for $750 and sell 10 prints in a year, have I even made my money back on the investment? Is that picture maybe worth even more than that if you encompass all that it took to create that?

THAT'S the answer to the OP's question, that's what makes his work so valuable.

As far as perspective, sure not everyone likes over saturated images, not everyone likes Ansel Adams either, honestly I think his moonrise over xxxx isn't all that great, I've seen better, but I can see why people admire it, and could see why someone would pay a lot for it.

And if I had never seen an Ansel Adams image, I certainly wouldn't be saying anything about the artists work, good nor bad, I think it's in poor taste to talk about something you don't really have any facts or experience on. So I think that's why one of you was mad when the other "armadillo" or whatever your name is (excuse me I'm on my phone and can't look back, not saying that to be insulting that's just sort of your name right?) that's why the other guy was upset, because you're talking about a work you've never even seen, at least look him up and read a little before entering the discussion.

I sold a print from my Grand Canyon trip for $750 this month, this includes the frame and such, after the cost of the frame and special mattering and printing my net profit is $300, do I feel all the effort I took to make and sell this image is only worth $300? No, it cost me $8,000 to get that shot (if you include all the shots and travel I took to create the entire Kodachrome project that includes that one image). But I don't think I over priced it at all, and I certainly don't think that the image is as good as many (or any) of Peter Lik's work, it's not bad, but it's not as epic as some of his. And the size (11x14) wasn't as big as his, but I felt my price was justified. Do you?

haze6ary.jpg


It's all perspective my friends ;)

~Stone


~Stone

Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

That is nice pix Stone. I saved it, nice work!
 
I do think some of it (perhaps quite a lot of it) is serendipity--being in the right place at the right time with the right photo, grabbing the attention of that person in the art world who has the ability to get your name and your art into the right circles and make things happen. Having the right connections really is critical--whether you are related to people in the art community (makes note to self to start being even more wonderful and sweet to my DC Art Museum-employee/UGA Art School board-member sister-in-law...), or whether you MAKE the right connections, it's critical to have them if you're ever going to make the really big break to THAT kind of money for your work.

But something else also strikes me when I google his name and look at the resulting images--they are ALL stunningly gorgeous. There are no "meh, whatever" quality pictures there. Joe Blow *might* be able to take a similar "dock leading out into blue water" kinda shot, but then you look at Joe Blow's body of work and you see some good, some bad and a lot of mediocre.
I'm not saying that Peter Lik has never taken a mediocre picture--I'm just saying what he chooses to put out there is STELLAR.

Yes, true. But one must also remember Lik is not the exact 'only one' behind the pix. Army of PP people, print lab, gallery...they all have input.

With our own work it may rest all on us. With pros they have lots of help. Art director, hair and makeup people, assitiants, pro models, location coop, pro labs, fixers, studio manager, pro pp people, best of equipment, $$ lubrication...and talent.

But we can all learn form Lik...just show your best work.
 
Art, for the most part, has value because it is expensive and is expensive because it is valuable.
I like what Amolitor said, especially the part I am quoting. It sounds really bad, but is close to what we have; a small percentage of true art lovers, a few noisy trend and price setters and the rest playing connoisseurs but in fact just following the fashion and dollar signs.
Lik has impressive collection of shots around the world, but nothing "shocking" as compositions and his color treatment aims for quick, popular acceptance. And office wall calendars.


True art lovers don't care about name, they just care about the art. Most of the art world is run by name though. I am run by art. I save lots of pix I find online with no name. Love the pix, name means nothing to me, although nice to have a name to put on the back of the print. I list it as 'annonymous' if I don't know.
 
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Wow.

The last line, I think, says it all:

If Leibovitz went into this agreement expecting leniency from a company which decorates its New York offices with the masterpieces forfeited by other defaulting debtors, she has been sadly proven wrong.
 
I save lots of pix I find online with no name. Love the pix, name means nothing to me, although nice to have a name to put on the back of the print. I list it as 'annonymous' if I don't know.
So, you print photos you find on the internet? What do you do with them?
 
To write off Eggleston and Sherman and all these others as "garbage" is to a) promote your own opinion as truth and b) to miss a lot of the important aspects of what's going on here.

I don't like Cindy Sherman, my opinion of her work is quite low. However, what she was doing was something interesting and innovative in an era when Performance Art and Conceptual Art were relatively new and interesting ideas. She fit into the milieu of the time, producing intellectually consistent work. She was producing work that could be sold at that time, and she was producing it consistently. Probably there were dozens or hundreds of other artists working similar ideas with similar dedication, and Sherman won the lottery.

The fact that she won a lottery and is now a Name does NOT mean that she wasn't working hard and well. She was. I don't like her work, but I don't deny that she's had a vision and bloody well stuck to it, and produced a coherent body of work and didn't let people see all the crap she no doubt shot at the same time. THIS is what it takes to get a lottery ticket, and it's not easy, and it's not trivial. If you don't have a lottery ticket, you're not going to win.

I think you will find that most successful artists work similarly hard to produce coherent bodies of work that reveal their ideas, and they scrap the stuff that doesn't fit. Their ideas and their art hit the right balance of innovation and evolution to be marketable at the time they're being made. This is real work.

This also has nothing to do with whether you like the art or not. This labor deserves our respect, even if we really hate the work.
 

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