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alb1113 · May 2, 2012

Hi all, I'm obviously a beginner photographer just looking for any advice/feedback on how to better my work & business.

I started just taking photos of me and my fiance with my tripod and soon I had so many requests to take photos for everyone else. I've always enjoyed photography and have additionally taken a few college classes on photography to learn more when I started being requested more. (I'm actually a Speech Pathology major). I live in a small town where there are SEVERAL photographers like myself.

I shoot with a Nikon D3100 & kit lens. I also do not own PS or Lightroom and typically just edit with the iphoto settings since I'm just getting started. I also shoot in auto mode as I have no idea how to shoot manual. Along with that, I did want to ask if any photographers in Central IL offer mentoring classes so that I can learn more on manual mode & shooting??!

My website is:
Byerly Photography**Devotion to my clients & love for photography - Welcome!
and it is a free host.

My pricing/package inclusion is included on my website if you'd like to critique that as well. I do not depend on the money from photography to live on which is why it may seem like I don't charge a lot. I offer a CD & print release simply because it's easier at the moment and I have no idea of a professional printer to use.

I don't consider myself specialized in anything and would eventually like to specialize in either weddings or maternity. I am a Speech Path major but the more I photograph, the more I hope and dream of sometime owning a shop or studio and making it more professional & fulltime.

Thank you in advance!

jowensphoto · May 2, 2012

Ok... I hope you don't get flamed. You seem like a very nice person who really has the drive to do this. Please know that the info below is not meant to be malicious. I am going to be 100% honest with you.

I'm going to be blunt: you're really not ready for this. I checked out your galleries on your website; conceptually, you have some GREAT ideas. In terms of composition, exposure, and use of light, you need a lot of work.

iPhoto is not ideal for post processing. Sure, you can come up with some funky edits, but it's not the proper tool. I don't believe it has RAW capabilities either. If you're going to be selling photos, you need to shoot in RAW and master all functions of your camera (including priority modes and manual).

From your website:

Standard Photo Shoot Pricing:
1 hour photo shoot with a print released CD of images- $40.

This is no way to make a profit. You should take some business courses too. Most will tell you that photography is actually the least important part of a successful photography business. Knowing how to run a business and market it (or finding/paying someone else to) is much more important to your success. There are some crap photographers that could sell ice to an eskimo; there are also great photographers who go out of business quickly.

You've got a lot going on on that website. A lot of packages, different galleries...and words. Lots and lots of words. This should be streamlined. Let your work sell itself without so much word vomit.

7 hours of wedding day coverage and 1 print released CD with edited photos for $750

Again, no. Just drop the print release CD. This is a terrible idea for business. You have to decide where you want to make your profit: prints or hourly. You're not doing either. You have to figure in all the time your going to spend shooting, editing, traveling, etc. THis is known as cost of doing business.

I'm going to leave it there for now. I hope you don't feel like I ripped you to pieces. The truth is there is a lot more than just taking "good" photos. I wish you the best of luck

12sndsgood · May 2, 2012

uh oh

jowensphoto · May 2, 2012

12sndsgood said:
uh oh

I share your sentiments.

I hope I didn't scare her away. Only trying to let her know what she's in for.

alb1113 · May 2, 2012

Thanks, I appreciate honestly- that's what I want!

The demand came on so quickly I really had no idea where to start. Do you suggest any additional readings/workshops/etc to learn more about comp/lighting etc? I've taken some college classes on it but nothing has really helped since I took the classes as a beginner rather than it being for a major/minor which is how they approach the classes.

I'm not comfortable with my pricing either, I know it's dirt cheap but since I don't consider myself a professional at all (and there are a dime a dozen photographers in my area that charge 30-60 $ for the exact same thing I do so I just put myself in the middle of that) I have no idea what to charge and since I'm not depending on this for money to live on, I don't charge a lot. My camera and everything is paid for so there's not anything I have to put my photography money towards. I've taken business classes as it used to be by minor but I feel like photography is on a different level. I don't have a studio, expensive equipment, website, marketing expenses etc to be paid for so am at a loss on how to price.

I don't shoot raw either since I know I don't have the editing systems to support it. It's all jpeg & auto for me so far.

Thanks for being honest- any tips on how to actually improve or change things would be great, also!

shmne · May 2, 2012

There is nothing wrong with dreaming of becoming a photographer, but much like becoming a rock star it isn't as easy as it seems. Honestly this is my suggestion to everyone about to cross this path, is this something you're ready to become extremely dedicated to or are you already down a different path? Are you only interested because of the fun it entails?

You can always switch paths, but it is difficult.

It seems like you are just honestly interested in photography and happen to be in a situation where there are few professionals in your area charging rates that are acceptable to the masses; or maybe the people you know just want something cheap instead of professional. Either way, I like to think of this situation as a local rock band. You know the group! They don't charge much, they sell hand made CDs, make their own shirts, etc. They have lots of people that love them, but they aren't just rockers. They also have day jobs.

This seems more like your situation than what jownsphoto is bringing up. Yes one day it will be great to have a little shop, but it takes a long time to build up to that and not every rock group makes it to fame.

With all of that said, it doesn't hurt to have a serious mindset behind what you're doing if you really want to become great. Act as if you are a professional, but understand that you will not be getting what a professional does. $40 is a bit too low, however I wouldn't charge so much that people don't want to use you either. Understand your limitations, don't take jobs that are high risk like weddings until you are absolutely positive you can handle (better yet, go ahead and follow around some wedding togs first).

Jowensphoto gave some great critiques, make sure to implement as much as you can but take it with a grain of salt. Keep in mind your level and where you intend to go because often many people forget not everyone plans on being a "professional."

12sndsgood · May 2, 2012

Just another heads up this type of post is like dynamite in here. Soon as you say im a beginner and i'm charging things get ugly. I'm going to be as nice as I can beacause I myself am working towards the same goal. but here are a few things ive done diffrently and you should really think about. and these are in no particular order

1. euipment. your D3100 and kit lens are not going to be able to handle low light situations which you have allot with weddings and allot of other events. allot of churches dont let you use flash. what happens when you show up to do someones wedding and you realise you can't get the images because the church is dark and they won't allow flashes. you can tell them to postpone the money. you will likley have worhtless images and you will most likley wind up in court. and gaurenteed you will be sued for way more then they were going to pay you.

2. insurance. what happens when little timmy falls off the swing as you were taking photos? we live in a sue happy world and tons of people will find you at fault.

3. taxes, business liscence. Have you regestered with your state? do you have your tax id number? if the goverment finds out yoru being paid they will come after you for your money.

4. skills. can you deliver great photos in poor conditions (see #1) if you don't then you shouldn't take a job.

5. pricing. your pricing is so low your not making money, your likely losing money on every shoot. you need to figure out what your time is worth and price accordingly. at those prices your just undercutting those that are out there trying to do this for real.

6. well thats enough for now. that should get you thinking a bit.

jowensphoto · May 2, 2012

Glad you came back, OP

Understand Exposure by Bryan Peterson is often recomended. I've seen another called "Light: Science and Magic" or something recomended a few times lately.

Read your user manual. Then read it again. And again. You get the idea.

If you're not comfortable charging a fair amount of money, you shouldn't be charging period. I suggest doing some TFP/CD work to get practice. You can find a lot of willing models (albeit, flakey) on sites like ModelMayhem (though it sounds like you've got no shortage in that dept!).

Have you tried GIMP? It's a freeware program that, in comparison to other high end editing programs, is very capable and user friendly. There's also a free RAW converter plug in you can download.

As I was clicking through your gallery (specifically engagements), I noticed a lot of cliche editing. I think that's probably due to your limited tools. Selective color is usually frowned upon, because it's hardly ever used appropriately. It's one of those things that Moms love, so using it sparingly will definitely sell some photos for you. Using it often (and incorrectly) will just get you made fun of.

A little tool I suggest: a grey card. It's easy to use (but you're going to need to shoot RAW and use a converter in post processing, see above) and makes a world of difference. I did notice some images have color casts, a grey card will help you with this and proper exposure.

Again, I think you really have great ideas. I like the shot of the couples holding the paper hearts. It's cute, but not something everyone has done. The photo of the baby's toes peeking out from the bottom; not a traditional shot, but I do love it. The little girl with the football, while far from perfect technically, was truly a moment captured.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of feedback. You might not like some it (internet forums are known for snark). Take it all with a grain of salt. You can learn a lot here!

alb1113 · May 2, 2012

Thanks again to everybody!

I've really enjoyed photographing other people more than I thought I would which is why I only want to better myself and business. I don't want to be stuck as the small town, cheap photographer that doesn't advance.

I had so many inquiries that I had to limit myself on the sessions I do (as I stated in my website). I've already booked weddings for next year which is why I'm really wanting to step my game up. The photographer I hired to shoot our wedding has let me shadow her and second shoot but hasn't had much time for one on one mentoring. When I do shoot weddings I rent lenses even though I don't actually own any and I have been experimenting more with PS in the university comp lab until I feel like I can actually feel comfortable purchasing it and knowing what to do on my own.

I've definitely taken everybody's advice into consideration and have already changed a bit on my site- especially the excessive wording!
I started charging just because I am still taking time shooting and editing that I felt a little compensation was necessary. There have been so many times (probably 7 out of 10 times) a client will give me $80 or $100 after a 1 hour photo shoot because they thought it was too cheap.

Even if I am being ripped a new asshole, at least I know everyone is being honest and I can start improving my work!

MTVision · May 2, 2012

alb1113 said:
Hi all, I'm obviously a beginner photographer just looking for any advice/feedback on how to better my work & business.

I started just taking photos of me and my fiance with my tripod and soon I had so many requests to take photos for everyone else. I've always enjoyed photography and have additionally taken a few college classes on photography to learn more when I started being requested more. (I'm actually a Speech Pathology major). I live in a small town where there are SEVERAL photographers like myself.

I shoot with a Nikon D3100 & kit lens. I also do not own PS or Lightroom and typically just edit with the iphoto settings since I'm just getting started. I also shoot in auto mode as I have no idea how to shoot manual. Along with that, I did want to ask if any photographers in Central IL offer mentoring classes so that I can learn more on manual mode & shooting??!

My website is:
Byerly Photography**Devotion to my clients & love for photography - Welcome!
and it is a free host.

My pricing/package inclusion is included on my website if you'd like to critique that as well. I do not depend on the money from photography to live on which is why it may seem like I don't charge a lot. I offer a CD & print release simply because it's easier at the moment and I have no idea of a professional printer to use.

I don't consider myself specialized in anything and would eventually like to specialize in either weddings or maternity. I am a Speech Path major but the more I photograph, the more I hope and dream of sometime owning a shop or studio and making it more professional & fulltime.

Thank you in advance!

This is not intended to be rude in any way:
I do not think you should be charging for your work. For one it's an easy way to get sued if you mess up someones photos (example a wedding can't be redone). You may be a beginner and you may say so on your website, I don't know I didn't look, but if your advertising and charging then in the customers eyes you are a professional. That means that your work should be guaranteed and they will come out perfectly everytime.

The fact that you shoot in auto is another indicator that you should not be charging. You don't have to shoot in manual but the A (aperture priority), S (shutter priority) or even P mode would at least give you some control over how your photos will turn out. As it is now your camera is controlling everything and it's basically a large point and shoot. You have absolutely no creative control over your exposures.

When I first got my camera and was shooting in auto everyone oohed and aahhed over my pictures. I was even asked to shoot some weddings. Which is completely crazy. But I really liked photography so I did my research an learned everything about my camera. I'm still learning but I wouldn't dream of charging people for my work.

If I were you, which I'm not and you don't have to listen to anything I saw, I would advertise some free, portfolio building shoots. Or just practice on friends and their families. If you need the extra money then sell them high quality prints and make a profit that way. Or accept donations if they are offered. There are a bunch of professional labs you can find online.

And there are millions of MWAC (moms with a camera) who open up shop the day they buy their camera. They probably have husbands who support them financially so this is just for fun. Hold yourself to a higher standard. Practice your craft, learn all you can, learn how to edit, etc. and when your ready (probably in a couple years) open for business and charge what your worth - not what other dime a dozen photographers are charging.

Understating Exposure is a decent book. It will teach you how to get out of auto.

Www.cambridgeincolour.com has some great resources

Your manual (it might've come on a cd) is helpful and will help you learn your camera inside and out.

Also, some faster/better glass (lens) will come in handy. Prime lenses are sharp and great in low light. Also really helpful when learning composition becAuse you actually have to move vs just zooming. 85mm is a great length for portraits. The 85mm f1.8g af-s lens is out or should be coming out soon and will be around 500.00. The 50mm af-s f1.8 is a great lens as well and is around 200.00.

You have a lot of learning ahead of you - but it's fun and so worth it!

12sndsgood · May 2, 2012

Actually this is polite, very polite for here so far lol.

If you have had to cut back on the sessions your doing and having people give you $80-$100 then maybe you need to raise the price. That right there will likely slow down the foot traffice so you can take some time to step back, look up what you need to do to protect yourself and set yourself up properly.

jowensphoto · May 2, 2012

Megan hit the nail on the head.

There's nothing wrong with having an end goal of opening a photography business, but it requires thorough honing of the craft. Don't be so hard on yourself that you expect to be able to shoot beautiful weddings right now. It's not fair to your clients. Get some more practice under your belt before you charge. Also, don't forget to study up on business.

MTVision · May 2, 2012

jowensphoto said:
Megan hit the nail on the head.

There's nothing wrong with having an end goal of opening a photography business, but it requires thorough honing of the craft. Don't be so hard on yourself that you expect to be able to shoot beautiful weddings right now. It's not fair to your clients. Get some more practice under your belt before you charge. Also, don't forget to study up on business.

^^^ yes. Experience should be enough compensation since your so new at this. I think once you actually learn about photography and take the camera of auto you aren't going to want to attempt a wedding. There is so much to learn and practice. Photography isn't easy by any means. Auto makes it seem so because all you do is point and click with really no thought behind it. You need to learn about lighting and flash (not your pop-up).

Also photographers have been sued because the wedding photos weren't that great. Weddings are big deals and they can't be redone. You should think about that before doing more weddings. It's a wedding - if you screw up the photos you could get sued, word would get around and there goes wedding photography and who knows what other business you would lose. Plus think about the bride and groom - do you really want all that responsibility on your shoulders when you arent confident and comfortable with your craft..

jowensphoto · May 2, 2012

I think once you actually learn about photography and take the camera of auto you aren't going to want to attempt a wedding.

This is a GREAT point. Stay in auto and you'll never learn anything, aside from basic composition. Auto is useful, but does not a pro photographer make.

Here's what I suggest: take some photos in auto. Using the knowledge you get from this forum, google, and suggested resources to figure out what is wrong with the photos. Check out the settings from the auto photos then adjust in manual to get it exactly how you want it.

MTVision · May 2, 2012

jowensphoto said:
This is a GREAT point. Stay in auto and you'll never learn anything, aside from basic composition. Auto is useful, but does not a pro photographer make.

Here's what I suggest: take some photos in auto. Using the knowledge you get from this forum, google, and suggested resources to figure out what is wrong with the photos. Check out the settings from the auto photos then adjust in manual to get it exactly how you want it.

Jowensphoto: Seems like me and you are having our own discussion!

Clickitupanotch.com is a great blog for photographers. The blogger has a whole section on how to shoot manual. It explains it fairly simply and is an excellent resource. You don't have to shoot manual - A and S modes are useful as well but it does help to understand everything.

Things to look up:
Rules of composition
Exposure triangle - aperture, shutter speed and ISO and how they work together
Metering and metering modes - I believe you have spot, partial and matrix/evaluative in your camera
Find your meter. Put the camera on M and point it at something. Look at the LCD and/or thru viewfinder. It will look something like this
-......0......+. With some lines under it. Your meter will help you determine exposure but it takes some knowledge and practice because metering to 0 all the time won't give you the best exposure
Depth of field
Use the manual to look up the different focusing modes and what they are used for
White balance