Abstract/semi-abstract photography and you

[Alpha]

The creation of fine art, a photograph, should certainly be informed by intelligence, but it is not lead by a specific thought process; it is always by feel and intuition and never analytical.

I partly disagree. That bars the kind of series I just shot from being considered fine art. I don't say that to toot my fine art horn, but as a matter of principle. Does it really detract from the creative process that I couldn't have predicted how the shots would turn out? We film photographers are in the habit of occasionally committing ourselves to processes with unpredictable outcomes. I think cross-procesing or even shooting with very expired films qualifies, even if the results aren't as extreme as the series I just did. When push comes to shove, the series I just did was far more a function of uneven development and neg sticking to pos than it was a matter of compositional forethought. However, that doesn't make it a less creative process. It's possible that anyone else who had exposed those five pieces of film would have ended up with an outcome very very similar to mine. But the point is that they didn't. I did. I pulled the slide, tripped the shutter, passed the sheets through the rollers, and pulled the packet apart. That makes the images my creation, and my art.

 

[Bifurcator]

I partly disagree. That bars the kind of series I just shot from being considered fine art. I don't say that to toot my fine art horn, but as a matter of principle. Does it really detract from the creative process that I couldn't have predicted how the shots would turn out? We film photographers are in the habit of occasionally committing ourselves to processes with unpredictable outcomes. I think cross-procesing or even shooting with very expired films qualifies, even if the results aren't as extreme as the series I just did. When push comes to shove, the series I just did was far more a function of uneven development and neg sticking to pos than it was a matter of compositional forethought. However, that doesn't make it a less creative process. It's possible that anyone else who had exposed those five pieces of film would have ended up with an outcome very very similar to mine. But the point is that they didn't. I did. I pulled the slide, tripped the shutter, passed the sheets through the rollers, and pulled the packet apart. That makes the images my creation, and my art.

Are they beating you up? I'm on your side here. All photography is unpredictable to some degree. There so much guess-work involved in every shot I'm amazed that I'm able to predict much at all. And let's be clear that a prediction no matter how educated, is not the same thing as knowing or having foreknowledge. With digital an EVF or a DOF preview can assist but it's still a far cry from WYSIWYG-like knowing.

This unknown mysterious factor doesn't make it any less artful than splatter art or even sketching and painting really. It shifts to a more spontaneous and intuitive or even semi-precognitive, process than a "creative" one by this definition however.

 

[Alpha]

Well, I'd say any quasi-experimental shooting and developing techniques qualify as more unpredictable outcomes. After all, the great technical masters of film photography always describe the need to develop and hone a predictable shooting and printing process.

That said, did you just view the post or am I off your ignore list now

 

[Bifurcator]

Jeez, I took you off 2 or 3 weeks ago.

I think you were only on for a few days and mostly due to Terri freaking out and making false accusations. I'm over it - kinda.

 

[Hertz van Rental]

Hertz Van- has brought this up a number of times. If he isn't tired of the whole thing, you might get his views. If you can find him that is. :/

Mentioning my name is a bit like saying Betelgeuse three times...

Firstly, you need to define the term 'abstract'.
In Art 'abstract' in it's broadest sense refers to anything which does not represent a recognizable object.
I suspect at least some people in this thread of not fully understanding this and thinking that photomontages (either made with Photoshop or with scissors and glue) are abstracts.
Distorting, altering, fragmenting, colouring or otherwise playing with an image does not create an abstract if the result can still be recognised as - or be seen to contain elements of - a figurative image.
This makes it clear that Photography starts with a disadvantage when attempting to create an abstract image.
How can one create an image that is abstract by using a process that is specifically designed to make a figurative representation?
Or to put it another way, abstract Art is an attempt to represent the unrepresentable: to present the viewer with something that does not and cannot exist in any form outside of the medium itself. Photography, by it's very nature, can only produce images of things that have physical existence so clearly will have problems trying to represent things that do not exist.
Further, any manipulation of a photographic image runs the risk of pushing it to a limit where it ceases to be a photograph and becomes a graphic image that merely incorporates photographic elements.
The problem is not insoluble. It is quite possible to produce images that can be defined as abstract through photographic means. But it is no simple matter and takes thought, inventiveness, skill and some wit to do it successfully.
And therein lies the answer to why abstract photography is not very popular

 

[abraxas]

Mentioning my name is a bit like saying Betelgeuse three times...

Firstly, you need to define the term 'abstract'.
...

Thanks. :thumbup:

 

[JC1220]

I partly disagree. That bars the kind of series I just shot from being considered fine art. I don't say that to toot my fine art horn, but as a matter of principle. Does it really detract from the creative process that I couldn't have predicted how the shots would turn out? We film photographers are in the habit of occasionally committing ourselves to processes with unpredictable outcomes. I think cross-procesing or even shooting with very expired films qualifies, even if the results aren't as extreme as the series I just did. When push comes to shove, the series I just did was far more a function of uneven development and neg sticking to pos than it was a matter of compositional forethought. However, that doesn't make it a less creative process. It's possible that anyone else who had exposed those five pieces of film would have ended up with an outcome very very similar to mine. But the point is that they didn't. I did. I pulled the slide, tripped the shutter, passed the sheets through the rollers, and pulled the packet apart. That makes the images my creation, and my art.

I don't think we are far apart on this. I am not saying I would bar something from being considered art, ultimately, I don't care how you got the results you got, the work will be judged on its own terms. And, it is there where you can see and feel how successful it is. The masters sought predicable technical aspects of their photography for a reason, so that they would be free from the technical leaving the ability to express their work. Unpredictable techincal results in the printing process, or the technical in general was not what I was getting at; but, can those results be a true creative expression of yourself if left to chance?

There was mention of the unknown in photography and, for me anyway, this is what photogaphy is about, discovery and the expereinces around photographing. The production of the photograph is really a bonus in the whole jouney, having a viewer connect to my photographs is another great bonus, selling a photograph another bonus. This is also one of the main reason I never return to the same location to "remake" a photograph, the only reason to do so would be to make a good photograph, it lacks discovery and connection and it is obvious in the final work.

In addition I think photographers need to stop being so caught up in labeling the kind of photographs they have taken or plan to take, landscapes, abstracts, semi-abstract(whatever that is),macro, etc. These are themes or styles and that should emerge as a function of your work naturally.

 

[Jeff Canes]

IMO, abstract photography is about composing simple photographs so that shapes and forms (lines and curves) are the main subject either with or with out a recognizable object shown. I have seen good and bad abstract of everything to and from backlit purple cabbage, bedpans, desert sands, human form and architectural details in books and this forum.

 

[Bifurcator]

I think the dictionary works well for defining "abstract" in photography:

abstract
adjective |abˈstrakt; ˈabˌstrakt|
existing in thought or as an idea but not having a physical or concrete existence : abstract concepts such as love or beauty.
• dealing with ideas rather than events : the novel was too abstract and esoteric to sustain much attention.
• not based on a particular instance; theoretical : we have been discussing the problem in a very abstract manner.
• (of a word, esp. a noun) denoting an idea, quality, or state rather than a concrete object : abstract words like truth or equality.
• of or relating to abstract art : abstract pictures that look like commercial color charts.
verb |abˈstrakt| |əbˈstrøkt| |øbˈstrøkt| |əbˈstrakt| [ trans. ]
1 consider (something) theoretically or separately from something else : to abstract science and religion from their historical context can lead to anachronism.
• [ intrans. ] form a general idea in this way : he cannot form a general notion by abstracting from particulars.


For me at least.

 

[PhilGarber]

I love semi-abstract! I'll pm you later on maybe starting a theme in the themes forum if your interested..

 

[50two]

i always new abstract (in art) as "a visual message in its most pure, raw form"
as according to my art teacher..so i have no idea what abstract photography is D;

examples anyone?

 

[Bifurcator]

Is there a "most pure, raw form"?

 

[Joves]

I want do more abstract stuff but it more often then not calls for contrivance, forethought, and what boils down to allot of work. Thus it's not copacetic with my usual spontaneous style. I wonder too how many others (hobbyists at least) feel the same.

Yeah Im in the same boat as you in shootings abstracts. I really have to motivate myself to do it, which makes it feel more like work than fun.