CIPA: Less than 7 million cameras have shipped from Jan-Oct 202

[Tinstafl]

Asd an economist this chart says that the market is shrinking and that we will lose a brand in a short while if the trend continues. We just had Olympus make that move. It will soon be Nikons turn I figure. The chart indicates that there is not enough sales to support all the manufacturers and the R&D they have to do to continue to innovate. IF they do not innovate we will not upgrade and the stretches the replacement cycle out even further. As it is now I do not upgrade every new model that comes out. There has to be a reason and something it does much better than what I have now. Mirrorless has added to the new sales as people start to adopt them but once they have one how many will purchase a new body without a major change in DR or High ISO or Focus ability. The thing is we are also forgetting is the AI in editing. That will make those who use a smartphone able to do a lot more. It is like the typewriter here. They used to be manual then they went electric and then they added a bit of memory so you could save your document as you typed and if you had an error instead of white out you could type a new page with a finger touch. Now who has one on their desk any longer. Nobody really. The DSLR is dying for mirrorless as Film died for Digital and now the whole industry is in a down trend and soon it will be as Nikon is focusing on, the high end only.

 

[cgw]

Now I get it: people who disagree with you shouldn't bother chiming in because they aren't really interested(in agreeing with you).

Time to put this troll on a starvation diet, limr.

The lengths people go to to shoot the messenger for news and facts they disagree with.

Please... You’re just doomscrolling. What makes you think we’re blithely unaware of industry trends? They’re reported and discussed here frequently.
Lose the absurd conceit that you alone know what’s up in the industry.

 

[LWW]

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

 

[limr]

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

 

[LWW]

Why

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

 

[limr]

Why

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

 

[limr]

And that same Nikon generally sells for half of that on ebay. Nikon F6 SLR Film Cameras for sale | eBay

And that's for a flagship Nikon that's been discontinued.

Search for more run-of-the-mill cameras? You're looking a fraction of that price.

 

[LWW]

Why

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

 

[vintagesnaps]

Try 20 bucks, that could get you a film camera. Depends on what it is, I've bought vintage pocket cameras or midcentury plastic or bakelike cameras for that or less. I don't know how much stores like B&H even bother with selling those anymore. Leicas are valuable and camera stores still sell those.

And how about some respect for Leo (limr), as a photographer and a moderator.

 

[limr]

Why

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

 

[LWW]

Why

By this logic, film camera prices should be astronomical by now.

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

You were talking about new film cameras.

The point you were disputing is that lower production numbers didn’t increase prices. Obviously it does, lower demand results in lower production over time. Lower production results in higher per unit production costs ... and eventually niche status and high retail price. What’s the production rate and pricing for horse drawn carriages?

The low price of used film cameras verifies this point as it is a mirror image of the problem. Millions of film SLR were available in the used market, and buyers are few and far between.

 

[LWW]

And that same Nikon generally sells for half of that on ebay. Nikon F6 SLR Film Cameras for sale | eBay

And that's for a flagship Nikon that's been discontinued.

Search for more run-of-the-mill cameras? You're looking a fraction of that price.

What more run of the mill film SLR is still in production?

 

[limr]

Why

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

You were talking about new film cameras.

The point you were disputing is that lower production numbers didn’t increase prices. Obviously it does, lower demand results in lower production over time. Lower production results in higher per unit production costs ... and eventually niche status and high retail price. What’s the production rate and pricing for horse drawn carriages?

The low price of used film cameras verifies this point as it is a mirror image of the problem. Millions of film SLR were available in the used market, and buyers are few and far between.

Show me exactly where I said I was talking about new film cameras.

Actually, do whatever you want. I was not interested in this debate before, and I am still uninterested in belaboring the same point over and over again. I believe the conclusion was overstated and nothing has changed my mind.

 

[LWW]

Why

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

You were talking about new film cameras.

The point you were disputing is that lower production numbers didn’t increase prices. Obviously it does, lower demand results in lower production over time. Lower production results in higher per unit production costs ... and eventually niche status and high retail price. What’s the production rate and pricing for horse drawn carriages?

The low price of used film cameras verifies this point as it is a mirror image of the problem. Millions of film SLR were available in the used market, and buyers are few and far between.

Show me exactly where I said I was talking about new film cameras.

Actually, do whatever you want. I was not interested in this debate before, and I am still uninterested in belaboring the same point over and over again. I believe the conclusion was overstated and nothing has changed my mind.

The entire thread is about NEW camera production, not used cameras.

 

[limr]

Why
The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

You were talking about new film cameras.

The point you were disputing is that lower production numbers didn’t increase prices. Obviously it does, lower demand results in lower production over time. Lower production results in higher per unit production costs ... and eventually niche status and high retail price. What’s the production rate and pricing for horse drawn carriages?

The low price of used film cameras verifies this point as it is a mirror image of the problem. Millions of film SLR were available in the used market, and buyers are few and far between.

Show me exactly where I said I was talking about new film cameras.

Actually, do whatever you want. I was not interested in this debate before, and I am still uninterested in belaboring the same point over and over again. I believe the conclusion was overstated and nothing has changed my mind.

The entire thread is about NEW camera production, not used cameras.

So no one else is allowed to introduce a different element into the conversation? which is also directly related and relevant to the discussion because it is an element that is being completely ignored in the overstated conclusion?

And yes, it was a trick question. You can't find where I was talking about new film cameras because I wasn't.

So keep having whatever conversation you're having with yourself, because I'm done. I've already spent far too much time on this.