Frustrated - New Extension Tubes and Distortion

Kosteniuk_Fan · Apr 5, 2012

Hello,

Yesterday the extension tubes I ordered online - lengths 31mm, 21mm, and 13mm - arrived and I attached them onto my Canon Rebel XS DSLR with the 100mm USM Macro lens I have for it.

Three issues with this

1.)

For some reason the camera I have an issue with the camera focusing. No matter what I seem to do it sometimes doesnt focus, and when I say that I mean there is no beep sound with the green-light telling me it is set, thereby meaning if I click the shutter button down it will inevitably be distorted. I change the shutter speed, the F-stop?, etc. without luck. Looking through the viewfinder, the subject looks crystal clear, but the camera doesnt focus? Other times it spontaneously focuses and I dont know why? So much of my time with the extension tubes on is spent looking through the viewfinder, changing the angle and/or the settings, focusing the lens, and nothing happens?

Why is this happening?

2.)

Most of the time the photos I take come out somewhat distorted, and I want to know why that is and how to change it. Will post an example.

3.)

What is the deal with tripods? Macrophotography seems like a lose-lose situation to me right now. When I use a tripod it takes too long to set up and the insect will by then have flown or run away, and if I dont use the tripod I have to deal with camera shake. Any advice for this? Ive been doing it handheld because I can rest the camera or lean on something whereas the tripod seems to be a permanent handicap. Advice?

Thanks.

Judobreaker · Apr 5, 2012

1. Turn off auto-focus.
Your camera will not be able to find its focus very well when working on such magnifications. Learn to focus manually and your images improve enormously.

2. I'm not sure what kind of distortion I'm looking for...

3. Macro with a tripod is very possible, just not advisable with moving subjects like insects in most cases.
To deal with camera shake: First make sure you have a good flash. Faster shutter speeds result in sharper images.
Next try and learn some 'sniper skills' (it actually might help if you read up on some real army sniper skills, it did for me).
Lastly, you could try and use a monopod. They're not as cumbersome as tripods and help loads when it comes to reducing camera shake.

Kosteniuk_Fan · Apr 5, 2012

1.) The camera and lens are on manual focus. Autofocus does nothing for me. The camera (or lens) is totally confused and it is worthless. Still, though, when using the lens strictly, or only the 31mm tube, the camera still beeps at me when it is focused regardless of whether it is manual or not.

2.) You don't think the photo is distorted? Doesn't look as crisp and clear as others' do…?

3.) I can't afford it right now but I am wanting to order a macro-ring flash in the coming few months. Monopods sound interesting. I've never seen one before. And what about snipping skills? What is it you mean by that?

mjhoward · Apr 5, 2012

Kosteniuk_Fan said:
2.) You don't think the photo is distorted? Doesn't look as crisp and clear as others' do?

Thats not lens distortion, that is operator error.

Big Mike · Apr 5, 2012

And what about snipping skills? What is it you mean by that?

I'm just guessing at this point, but I think that you'd find it has techniques for holding your gun (camera) as steady as possible. For example, I believe that the best time to take the photo, is when you are exhaling, because that is when your body is the most still. Snipers have techniques to get the most accurate shot...photographers can use the same techniques to get the sharpest photos (least amount of blur from camera shake).

Actinometro · Apr 5, 2012

Doing macro with extension tubes you loose a lot of light plus putting/removing tubes is not practical and you risk dust in your camera sensor.

The solution I found consists in using a lens adapter. I use Raynox dcr-250 and I am very happy with it. No light lost, good IQ and I put/remove it in 2 seconds.

These photos http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/macro-photography/279136-three-row.html were shot with it plus Nikkor 85 micro vr (handheld).

cgipson1 · Apr 5, 2012

Macro focus should be done manually anyway.

Did you order cheap non-contact type extension tubes?

Overread · Apr 5, 2012

Points to consider:

1) Macro photography is very challenging for AF sensors to work with. Reduced light and amplified motions as well as back and forth sway make it very hard for most cameras to get a reliable lock. Shift into manual focusing instead; set the focus to roughly where you want it and then move the camera and lens closer/further from the subject to bring the plane of focus over the areas you want in-focus.

2) If you got cheap extension tubes that came without metal contacts inside the use of those tubes will remove your lenses aperture control and Af control. If you have these kinds of tube you've got a challenge indeed as you can't chance your aperture on the lens *there are some workaround but first say what kind of tubes you have*

3) Flash - if you're handholding flash helps a lot. First if the flash is the dominant light source it gives you a better chance at a sharper shot because the flashduration is very fast; thus simulating the use of a very fast shutter speed in freezing the motion at the point the light pulse goes out. It also lets you use smaller apertures for more depth of field whilst retaining a low ISO (raising ISO for flash macro work helps if you want a more coloured background as many times flash will result in a black background.

4) Tripods are slow macro shooting; that means you need a very torpid insects (ie one found early in the morning when many have not warmed up from the sun and are cold from the night and thus unable to move) or some kind of lure. This can be a flower that insects freaquent; a strip of sugarwater; rotting fruit; etc... things that will attract and then distract the insect (many when feeding are very single minded); further some insects have repeatable behaviour patterns - eg dragonflies will often return to the same perches over and over again to oversee their land.

Derrel · Apr 5, 2012

Start by using only ONE extension tube at first--the 13mm. Stacking all three is going to be an exercise in absolute frustration and futility for a beginner. You are right; for insect photography with a 100mm macro WITH extension tubes,plural, added, there's no way in hades you're gonna get setup and capture a moving insect; maybe on a cold-palayzed bee at 6:456 AM, sure...but not on flies or butterflies or other actively-moving bugs.

So, use JUST the 13mm tube for a while. See if you can figure out how to use flash to stop motion, and to get your f/stop to f/9.5 to f/11.

Kosteniuk_Fan · Apr 5, 2012

Overread said:
Points to consider:

1) Macro photography is very challenging for AF sensors to work with. Reduced light and amplified motions as well as back and forth sway make it very hard for most cameras to get a reliable lock. Shift into manual focusing instead; set the focus to roughly where you want it and then move the camera and lens closer/further from the subject to bring the plane of focus over the areas you want in-focus.

2) If you got cheap extension tubes that came without metal contacts inside the use of those tubes will remove your lenses aperture control and Af control. If you have these kinds of tube you've got a challenge indeed as you can't chance your aperture on the lens *there are some workaround but first say what kind of tubes you have*

3) Flash - if you're handholding flash helps a lot. First if the flash is the dominant light source it gives you a better chance at a sharper shot because the flashduration is very fast; thus simulating the use of a very fast shutter speed in freezing the motion at the point the light pulse goes out. It also lets you use smaller apertures for more depth of field whilst retaining a low ISO (raising ISO for flash macro work helps if you want a more coloured background as many times flash will result in a black background.

4) Tripods are slow macro shooting; that means you need a very torpid insects (ie one found early in the morning when many have not warmed up from the sun and are cold from the night and thus unable to move) or some kind of lure. This can be a flower that insects freaquent; a strip of sugarwater; rotting fruit; etc... things that will attract and then distract the insect (many when feeding are very single minded); further some insects have repeatable behaviour patterns - eg dragonflies will often return to the same perches over and over again to oversee their land.

1.) Yes Ive learned that manual is better than autofocus. Does this affect the green-light I receive? Whether in autofocus or manual focus the camera usually beeps at me with a green-light when it is focused and ready. I thought autofocus was strictly whether the lens magnified the subject automatically or not?

2.) Haha. No. I dont have cheap extension tubes. Certainly not the Chinese made ones. Although they're still not the best, I did spend over $100 on them from an American camera store called Cameta Camera, the same store that sold me my DSLR kit. The company that manufactured them is Zeikos. I still have full camera/lens functions with them in. I read about the Chinese tubes on other forums and the Kenko tubes but couldnt afford the latter so I found a middle ground.

3.) I want to order a macro-ring flash in a few months when I can afford to, but in the mean time all I have is the built-in Canon flash. Outside I seldom use the flash. I didnt think it would help much. Often I find I have too much light when working with insects in direct sunlight, especially with all the man-made items that are painted white on our land. Will start using the flash more often if it helps.

4.) Oh, yes, I am familiar with the behavior of insects. Horseflies I have found return to the same locations frequently, too. Unfortunately, though, it is too early in the season for most insects to be active. I do live in central Canada and it is still cold out. No flowers or plants much. Mostly only houseflies are out and on the side of our mobile home or on our deck. Trees dont even have leaves yet. Right now I am photographing mostly houseflies and a few tachnid flies here and there.

Thanks for the detailed advice

.

Thanks also to Derrel. I will take your advice and use the 13mm only tomorrow morning

.

Overread · Apr 6, 2012

As far as I know if you have the AF set to continous mode (ai-servo) and then set the AF switch on the camera to manaul you should still get the camera sampling the focus and giving you the green light as you focus the camera whilst holding down the shutter button half way. If you are in singleshot it might only work once each time you half depress the shutter button so stick to ai-servo.

As for the flash if you build yourself a small snoot for the popup flash so that the light is brought down to near the end of the macro lens you should be able to get a respectable amount of light to work with for macro shooting. Just make sure to have a little tab on the end to reflect the light down toward the subject.
Settings wise try 1/200sec, ISO 100, f11-f13 kind of range as a rough starting point. That gives you the fastest shutter speed possible with flash whilst also giving a clean shot with a good depth of field. Vary things as you desire though (macro photography can be done - like all fields of photography - with a massive range of settings limited only by your creative needs).

As for a proper flash note that ringflashes are rather limited to working only in macro work (this excludes the much larger beauty ring flashes which are normally an adaptor not a proper flash themselves) and because of their positioning they can be hard to diffuse the light from. Good ones let you change the balance of the light from the two sides so that you can at least put some shadows into the shot (otherwise they render with a very flat light - good for applications like research but less good for more creative photography).
Personally I always advise people to get a proper speedlite flash for their first flash. That gives one a flash that can be used in nearly any field of photgraphy and will see a lot of use. With diffusers and brackets one can also get them into nearly any desired position to give lighting. I normally say try for the own brand options for expanded features - something like a 430EX2 or a 580EX2. However if they are too much in cost there are good 3rd party options on the market (they might limit you to manual flash powers, but otherwise give solid and reliable results - if lacking some of the bells and whistles).

hangman45 · Apr 6, 2012

One thing I have not seen mentioned is the fact that once you add tubes the DOF decreases and it makes it more difficult to focus. Making a flash diffuser is easy and there are many options do a search on google for homemade macro flash diffuser I have a ring light but also use homemade flash diffuser. Once you get a flash you can change you F stop go with around F/16 to F/22 for maximum DOF.
Here are my 2 set ups.

Overread · Apr 6, 2012

Far as I can tell extension tubes don't decrease the depth of field.
However what they do do is increase the maximum possible magnification of the subject on the sensor, as a result when you shoot at the increased magnifications the depth of field further reduces. This decrease appears to be linked to the magnification factor not the method you use (so you could use extension tubes, teleconverters or close up lens attachments and you'd still be getting the same amount of depth of field decreasings as you increase the magnifications).

hangman45 · Apr 6, 2012

Overread said:
Far as I can tell extension tubes don't decrease the depth of field.
However what they do do is increase the maximum possible magnification of the subject on the sensor, as a result when you shoot at the increased magnifications the depth of field further reduces. This decrease appears to be linked to the magnification factor not the method you use (so you could use extension tubes, teleconverters or close up lens attachments and you'd still be getting the same amount of depth of field decreasings as you increase the magnifications).

Yes this true but when you add tubes you also increase magnification which in turn reduces DOF so really the tubes are not the cause but since the tubes increase magnification they would be linked.

Kosteniuk_Fan · Apr 6, 2012

Overread said:
As far as I know if you have the AF set to continous mode (ai-servo) and then set the AF switch on the camera to manaul you should still get the camera sampling the focus and giving you the green light as you focus the camera whilst holding down the shutter button half way. If you are in singleshot it might only work once each time you half depress the shutter button so stick to ai-servo.

As for the flash if you build yourself a small snoot for the popup flash so that the light is brought down to near the end of the macro lens you should be able to get a respectable amount of light to work with for macro shooting. Just make sure to have a little tab on the end to reflect the light down toward the subject.
Settings wise try 1/200sec, ISO 100, f11-f13 kind of range as a rough starting point. That gives you the fastest shutter speed possible with flash whilst also giving a clean shot with a good depth of field. Vary things as you desire though (macro photography can be done - like all fields of photography - with a massive range of settings limited only by your creative needs).

As for a proper flash note that ringflashes are rather limited to working only in macro work (this excludes the much larger beauty ring flashes which are normally an adaptor not a proper flash themselves) and because of their positioning they can be hard to diffuse the light from. Good ones let you change the balance of the light from the two sides so that you can at least put some shadows into the shot (otherwise they render with a very flat light - good for applications like research but less good for more creative photography).
Personally I always advise people to get a proper speedlite flash for their first flash. That gives one a flash that can be used in nearly any field of photgraphy and will see a lot of use. With diffusers and brackets one can also get them into nearly any desired position to give lighting. I normally say try for the own brand options for expanded features - something like a 430EX2 or a 580EX2. However if they are too much in cost there are good 3rd party options on the market (they might limit you to manual flash powers, but otherwise give solid and reliable results - if lacking some of the bells and whistles).

Actually, no, I am not using ai-servo, I am using manual focus on the one-shot setting. No autofocus on whatsoever. I haven’t had much use for ai-servo while doing insects because the autofocus is not helpful.

But when I am manually focuses the lens the subject looks so clear and perfect in the viewfinder with the shutter button half-way down, but it does not beep the green-light at me, and if I take the shot anyway it will inevitably be blurred. The issue seems to be worse then using all three tubes at the same time - camera shake or DOF issue?

I will use those settings you suggested. To clear things for me, though, what is what on my camera? I’ve heard words like aperture, shutter speed, DOF, f-stop, etc. all used, but which numbers or settings do I find these?

For example…

When on the Manual mode I see a number like 1/250 on the left and a number with an F (i.e. F8) on the right. In my experience the first one makes the images brighter or darker and the lower the second number (i.e. 250) the better the use of a tripod. Is this shutter speed? The second F-number seems to blur areas not in focus more - DOF? A second one I have noticed in the Av mode is a small graph from -2 to +2 with a dial. This seems to make the images either brighter or darker. What is this? Just having difficultly connecting all the terminology with features on the camera so I know what is what.

The macro-ring flash I am looking at is a dual flash - both a speedlight and a ring together that can be used simultaneously or separately. I found the flash on eBay and it looks like the best for me. Costs around $200+ but it is a two birds with one stone scenario, or so I think. However, I recently purchased the 100mm lens and the extension tubes kit, therefore I can’t afford the flashes for now. I also happen to need to repair my satellite Internet connection. An each time I order something I have to pay the cost of it, duties and taxes, shipping, and all this other fun stuff.