Frustrated with harsh shadows! Help!

[Derrel]

Yeah, most people place the fill light on the opposite side of the camera, but what Kundalini's TEXT says is to place the main light anywhere from directly behind the camera (ie, directly on-axis, AKA the CLASSIC on-axis fill-light approach), to as much as 18 inches on the same side as the main light. Anyway...looking at that actual drawing he offered, the majority of the fill light will be blocked by the softbox that is the MAIN LIGHT . In the drawing as shown, the very weak edges of the fill light's beam will hit the shadowed side of the subject, with the way the subject is shown placed. So.....his drawing is going to provide very weak fill light. The DISTANCES shown seem pretty reasonable to me, given identical power...especially considering the way the user creates those diagrams at onlinelightingdiagrams.com....one extra pull off that bottle and the distances go all to he((!! lol. But seriously, the site's a bit tricky to use in terms of exact distances.

But, the thing is...Kundalini's TEXT and his diagram both have multiple good suggestions. Subject's body angled, check. Softbox for main pretty close, check. Hair light cut wayyy down so it just kisses side of head, check. Feather the main light, check. Place main for 10 to 2 o'clock catchlight, check.

The BIGGEST mistake "most people" make is to set up the main light on one side, and then set up a so-called "fill" on the opposite side at the exact, same angle...which is totally,totally,totally awful. Although I normally set my fill light right next to the camera, on the opposite side of the camera as my main light, his diagram, as-shown, WILL WORK as a fill light, at the placement stated (in text, right behind the camera) and even 18 inches off to the "wrong" side; with the fill light being wither a softbox placed as shown or an umbrella, the light that hits on the shadowed side will be "fill light", and it will be WEAK, and acting as "fill", and NOT, most definitely not, as a competing main light source that was erroneously fired in from the "wrong side".

 

[jwbryson1]

When you place the fill behind the camera and on axis as described, pardon my ignorance, where does the photographer stand so he does not block the fill light? Or do you raise the fill above the photographer's head and point it down? :scratch:

 

[Village Idiot]

When you place the fill behind the camera and on axis as described, pardon my ignorance, where does the photographer stand so he does not block the fill light? Or do you raise the fill above the photographer's head and point it down? :scratch:

Put it just to the right of you or above your or below you. As close as you can get to on axis. The point it that it's not going to be powerful enough to generate it's own shadows. It's use is to cook off some of the shadows from the main light if they're too over powering.

 

[Derrel]

There is plenty of light being projected by an umbrella, or a softbox, to make the fill light. If you were working with studio flash with continuous quartz modeling lamps in each flash head, you'd be able to literally "see" this wall of light...but since you are working with speedlights, you do not have that advantage...

...in that same vein, I think you might still be placing your main light too LOW in relation to your daughter's eye-height. Working in a basement, even with a child of her age, I think she ought to be seated in order to get that eye catchlight HIGHER up on the eyeball. In the most-recent shot I saw (the white backdrop shot you posted in another thrread, this AM) , the catchlight and nose shadow both appear to be still a bit too low to be considered optimal.

Not trying to be elitist or snobby or anything, but the struggles you are having constitute a good example of why I have long maintained that for beginners, studio flash units with modeling lights in them, allow the beginner to make MUCH faster progress; because he or she can literally SEE, in real time, exactly WHAT then lights "do" when placed in different locations and at different heights. You are learning things "the hard way", without many advantages from your lighting gear itself.

 

[jwbryson1]

Not trying to be elitist or snobby or anything, but the struggles you are having constitute a good example of why I have long maintained that for beginners, studio flash units with modeling lights in them, allow the beginner to make MUCH faster progress; because he or she can literally SEE, in real time, exactly WHAT then lights "do" when placed in different locations and at different heights. You are learning things "the hard way", without many advantages from your lighting gear itself.

Not at all. I'm here to learn and I understand my limits. My basement is unfinished as you can see from my post, and the things I struggle with are a low ceiling and exposed beams + light reflecting off of metal AC vents which can move the light in various directions. I'm good with that and it will come in time. The worst part is all the toys and crap I have to work around. Now those are a pain in the a$$! :lmao:

 

[kundalini]

Yeah, most people place the fill light on the opposite side of the camera, but what Kundalini's TEXT says is to place the main light anywhere from directly behind the camera (ie, directly on-axis, AKA the CLASSIC on-axis fill-light approach), to as much as 18 inches on the same side as the main light. Anyway...looking at that actual drawing he offered, the majority of the fill light will be blocked by the softbox that is the MAIN LIGHT . In the drawing as shown, the very weak edges of the fill light's beam will hit the shadowed side of the subject, with the way the subject is shown placed. So.....his drawing is going to provide very weak fill light. The DISTANCES shown seem pretty reasonable to me, given identical power...especially considering the way the user creates those diagrams at onlinelightingdiagrams.com....one extra pull off that bottle and the distances go all to he((!! lol. But seriously, the site's a bit tricky to use in terms of exact distances.

But, the thing is...Kundalini's TEXT and his diagram both have multiple good suggestions. Subject's body angled, check. Softbox for main pretty close, check. Hair light cut wayyy down so it just kisses side of head, check. Feather the main light, check. Place main for 10 to 2 o'clock catchlight, check.

The BIGGEST mistake "most people" make is to set up the main light on one side, and then set up a so-called "fill" on the opposite side at the exact, same angle...which is totally,totally,totally awful. Although I normally set my fill light right next to the camera, on the opposite side of the camera as my main light, his diagram, as-shown, WILL WORK as a fill light, at the placement stated (in text, right behind the camera) and even 18 inches off to the "wrong" side; with the fill light being wither a softbox placed as shown or an umbrella, the light that hits on the shadowed side will be "fill light", and it will be WEAK, and acting as "fill", and NOT, most definitely not, as a competing main light source that was erroneously fired in from the "wrong side".

Yeah, I got a little flustered this morning with the Lighting tool and the time constraints I had to do it in. Just remember that it is a diagram, not a plan.

I got the useful information about setting the Fill light as described in the diagram from Ben, most notably from thephotocamel dot com as Benji and is often linked for his writing of The Rules of Good Portraiture. In his studio, he will use two less powerful heads bounced off a white wall for his Fill light. I've picked his brain a few times on-line and on the phone. Although he is very much a traditional portraiture photographer, there is much to be learned, even if his style doesn't match yours.

 

[Dubaiian]

Hi Guys,


I am reading this thread with great interest and really appreciate all of the knowledge being shared. Whenever I do portraits, I am also limited to speed lights, reflectors and smallish softboxes. Do any of you more experienced guys have a recommendation for a first "proper" lighting setup? I don't want to break the bank so just something that would get me going? Based upon Derrels comments they should have modelling ability.

Have stands etc and some modifiers as mentioned sois it possible just to buy the lights and power alone?

Any ideas?