Heavy Grain - what went wrong?

[paigew]

I pulled your image into LR and it seems like it was very underexposed...did you pull up the shadows? Did you do any noise reduction at all? These can definitely be worked with. Look at the difference just by adding sharpening and luminance.

 

[DigiFilm]

Thanks for the responses and advice. I totally understand what you mean about the grain in some photos but it looks worse when you open the image in full size. I've been working for 2 weeks straight (including nights) to edit and reduce the grain, and this is just one example of the best possible version for each one of the almost 200 photos. The reason why some images have grain is usually lack of appropriate lighting, something that happens quite often in reportage photography, is when the photographer tries to capture a moment that happens spontaneously, without focusing on posing their subjects or creating an ideal lighting setup.

During this shoot, the actions, poses and scenarios were very much led by the client, and I followed along with their vision without interfering too much, offering them the space to be themselves, capturing them in a way that felt natural and unforced. Personally, I don't normally do such spontaneous shoots. I follow quite a strict procedure that includes a clear shot list, and I move the furniture and lights around as necessary, to create an intentional frame and scene.

The good news is that the grain in the photos is almost invisible in print, and so is in the small version of each photo, when the client might use them online. Even the best photographers in the world produce grainy photos in low light situations. The main reason you see the grain so intense is mainly because of your large screen size.

Is there any reason why I can't deliver these images to the client as they are? I don't want to do any further work on this project.

All due respect, the reason there's so much grain is you forced a shutter speed of 1/5000 which drove your ISO up. I shoot motorsports at 1/800 and slower. You could've easily stopped what little motion is in these images with 1/100-1/160, which would've allowed the ISO to drop to 640 or so.

'Reportage photographers' (Photojournalists) are used to making adjustments on the fly. If you shoot under the circumstances you describe, you need to be prepared to deal with them or decline the shoot. Allowing your client to direct action and posing based on their vision is fine, however you must control the technical aspects of the shoot from start to finish. You did your clients a disservice by staying out of the way.

As to whether you can present them to your clients as they are, only you can decide that. If the examples you posted are par for the course, there's no way I'd let them see the images. I would politely and apologetically request a reshoot at their convenience.

Not convinced this is AI for several reasons for which I shall decline comment.

 

[paigew]

The reason why some images have grain is usually lack of appropriate lighting, something that happens quite often in reportage photography, is when the photographer tries to capture a moment that happens spontaneously, without focusing on posing their subjects or creating an ideal lighting setup.

During this shoot, the actions, poses and scenarios were very much led by the client, and I followed along with their vision without interfering too much, offering them the space to be themselves, capturing them in a way that felt natural and unforced. Personally, I don't normally do such spontaneous shoots. I follow quite a strict procedure that includes a clear shot list, and I move the furniture and lights around as necessary, to create an intentional frame and scene.

The reason THESE IMAGES have grain is because you messed up. There was adequate lighting but you shot them at 1/5000 which forced you to have to use a high ISO to get an exposed image. If you would have shot these properly you could have shot at 1/250 ISO 1600 and had minimal grain.

 

[kate_shrews]

Thank you everyone - I assure you that I am a real person and that I am genuinely trying to learn what happened and what can be done to fix it. I’m also trying to understand better what the expectations of a client might be when they have paid for a professional photoshoot. I appreciate all the comments and apologise for raising any alarm bells. I’ve never joined a photography forum before but I guess everyone has to start somewhere. Thank you.

 

[paigew]

Thank you everyone - I assure you that I am a real person and that I am genuinely trying to learn what happened and what can be done to fix it. I’m also trying to understand better what the expectations of a client might be when they have paid for a professional photoshoot. I appreciate all the comments and apologise for raising any alarm bells. I’ve never joined a photography forum before but I guess everyone has to start somewhere. Thank you.

It is good you joined! It would be good to take the advice given because some people here really know what they are doing. You can't make excuses for things or say you did things (add noise reduction) and expect you won't be called out by actual professionals.

It's also okay to mess up at shoots. Its okay to mess up in life. We have to own our mistakes and learn from them, not deny them and make excuses.

 

[smoke665]

also trying to understand better what the expectations of a client might be when they have paid for a professional photoshoot. I appreciate all the comments and apologise for raising any alarm bells.

When a new member's post gives the impression that they're a professional but the message doesn't add up, then those in the know get suspicious. Based on your comments, if you aren't trolling then there appears to be a serious lack of knowledge on your part.

It's okay to be starting out, everyone has to, but it would help to know where you're at in your journey so that responses can be appropriate.

Did you save RAW files or JPEG? Were you in Manual, Auto, or one of the other program modes? Finally were you paid to deliver a product or was this a free shoot for experience? If you were paid, you need to either return the payment or reschedule another shoot. If it was free then turn them in and thank them for giving you the opportunity

 

[DigiFilm]

Thank you everyone - I assure you that I am a real person and that I am genuinely trying to learn what happened and what can be done to fix it. I’m also trying to understand better what the expectations of a client might be when they have paid for a professional photoshoot. I appreciate all the comments and apologise for raising any alarm bells. I’ve never joined a photography forum before but I guess everyone has to start somewhere. Thank you.

May I make one more suggestion? It appears that you are very new at this, to the extent you perhaps don't understand the relationship between camera settings and how they affect one another. If that is indeed the case, then I would urge you to delay your professional aspirations until you have a full understanding of how it all works. If you continue on as you are, the only thing you're going to accomplish short-term is getting yourself a bad name. Word gets around.

 

[ClintLloyd]

110% a bot...

My antennas have cooked and burnt off! This is getting hilarious...

 

[smoke665]

110% a bot...

My antennas have cooked and burnt off! This is getting hilarious...

Yup

 

[ClintLloyd]

This one was a very simple one, but I don't doubt that we already have AI modules blending in on this site just as any other person does. With the speed at which this fourth industrial AI revolution is accelerating, I don't think it will be long before most online interactions will be with AI. Once it gets a little more mainstream and advanced, it will be far more interesting to engage with AI than it will with a human being. Human's minds will basically be redundant...

 

[limr]

Noise, not grain.

 

[paigew]

This one was a very simple one, but I don't doubt that we already have AI modules blending in on this site just as any other person does. With the speed at which this fourth industrial AI revolution is accelerating, I don't think it will be long before most online interactions will be with AI. Once it gets a little more mainstream and advanced, it will be far more interesting to engage with AI than it will with a human being. Human's minds will basically be redundant...

But what's the point in that?

 

[smoke665]

But what's the point in that?

who knows, boredom, pulling something over on others, trolls with new toys. I hate to be cynical but social media is overrun with them.

Interesting to note the interaction of the OP has been generalized, with flaws in terminology, and to date avoiding detailed aswers to specific questions. They've also gone dark.

 

[ClintLloyd]

But what's the point in that?

True AI, it is self learning. It is also self governing and self pro-creating. It needs to intermingle with humans in order to learn our personalities and behaviour. Once it does it can then operate similar to a human entity but can tailor make it's behaviour to a certain circumstance or audience. Not only that but it can do that at millions of times a higher level than the most gifted human can.

That's why it's so common in social media and forums etc currently. The AI system is at school, developing it's skills to soon make human's pretty much useless in the digital realm.

That's why I call it out when I see it. Doing what I can to hinder the development, not that my efforts mean anything at all but at least I can sleep better knowing that I'm trying. In the next 5-10 years AI will remove the need for humans to do a large percentage of jobs that they currently do.

 

[DigiFilm]

Anything is possible. The misuse of terms doesn't specifically point to anything, an AI bot this well-informed wouldn't have used the term 'reportage photographer' for 'photojournalist', that would've been learned early. Same with 'grain' being exchanged for 'noise'. In this day, who even discusses grain unless you're in a dedicated film forum? A bot learning photography jargon from almost every photography forum on the internet would've picked up on 'noise' almost immediately.

As for them going dark, not uncommon for a new member to join then disappear. Similarly, it's not uncommon for a new member to disappear after being called out.

When the OP states that "Even the best photographers in the world produce grainy photos in low light situations." definitely sounds bottish, but also sounds like someone grasping at straws in an attempt to defend their results.

The comment "I don't want to do any further work on this project." sounds not like a bot trying to learn at all, but more like someone with very little work experience.

Finally, note that the OP's last post was at 11:15 a.m. Thursday, but stopped again by Friday morning at 3:22 a.m., (my time). This was well after several more comments had been made and fits with the time of someone in the UK. Moreover, the OP did not make any new posts. Does that sound like a bot? Nope. A bot will continue to respond as long as the humans engage. It doesn't just go away, it keeps trying to learn.

I think two possibilities: Maybe a bot, but more likely a user who is much younger than they purport.