Kit Lenses vs. Prime Lenses

[Dave442]

Just checked an image of a dogs face I did with the 35mm f/1.8 and at f/2.8 the nose to the eye is in focus. Camera to subject was 0.45 meter and the background was 0.75 meter from the camera and is nicely OOF.

 

[JustJazzie]

Just checked an image of a dogs face I did with the 35mm f/1.8 and at f/2.8 the nose to the eye is in focus. Camera to subject was 0.45 meter and the background was 0.75 meter from the camera and is nicely OOF.

Yeah, but what kind of dog was it? There is quite a jump in nose length from a pug to a German shepherd. ;-)

 

[lisameowrie]

Wow, that's a lot of information, but thank you! This is what I needed to read!
I have not been working with my new camera/lenses very long and growing frustrated because my photos aren't turning out like I want them to, you hit it right on the head.

Are you saying I need to be shooting wide open all the time? I try to, which is 5.6 and that isn't that much. I do try to get as much distance between my subject (the pet) and the background, but sometimes that is hard because they have a mind of their own and a room is only so big say if their on a couch next to a wall or window.

I do have a speedlight, but I do not have any of the other light sources you mentioned. A scrim is to help filter outside light? What is a neutral density filter and what would I need that for, this scenario?

"What do you do when it's so bright that you can't open up your aperture to get the blurry background and round bokeh you want, even with the ISO as low as possible? Do you just crank down the aperture and then wonder why the background looks too sharp, not the buttery look you want? What do you think you'll do in that same situation with a "better" lens that allows you to open it up even more, when you simply CAN'T, unless you have some other way to get a handle on the light? That's where that ND filter comes in, by the way. Do you have one?"

Are you shooting pets indoors or outdoors?
What are you using for lighting?
How long have you been working with the lenses you currently have?

There's a tendency for newer shooters to start looking for "better" lenses when their shots aren't turning out the way they'd hoped they would; The way they see really great shots online from others. And the first thing that gets the blame is "kit lenses".

The truth is that kit lenses are actually quite good. The problem is that ALL lenses need the person behind them to learn how to best work them, AND the subjects, AND the backgrounds, AND the lighting, ALL together, in order to MAKE it all come together. "Better lenses" aren't a magic bullet to better photos. To get great photos, you need to get understanding and control over EVERYTHING.

Are you already shooting with your aperture wide open to get a shallow DOF? Because that's what those "better" lenses allow you to do. If you're not opening up your current lenses all the way, getting lenses that open up even more isn't going to fix it.

Are you paying attention to the backgrounds and doing what you can to get them as far behind the pets as possible? This, combined with opening up the aperture so that the iris is round and not jagged from the aperture blades is one of the things you really need to pay attention to in order to get that great bokeh you want.

Are you using off camera flash for lighting? Softboxes? Umbrellas? Reflectors? Scrims? On camera flash? Sun coming through windows? Neutral density filters? Understanding light and shadow and how to make the best use of them in different situations is what separates the snapshots from the photographs. Full control over your lighting also allows the control you need to get the aperture and shutter speeds you need for the round bokeh and more blurred backgrounds you're looking for.

What do you do when it's so bright that you can't open up your aperture to get the blurry background and round bokeh you want, even with the ISO as low as possible? Do you just crank down the aperture and then wonder why the background looks too sharp, not the buttery look you want? What do you think you'll do in that same situation with a "better" lens that allows you to open it up even more, when you simply CAN'T, unless you have some other way to get a handle on the light? That's where that ND filter comes in, by the way. Do you have one?

Your kit lenses, in most cases, can do that stuff you're looking to do, IF you HAVE control over the various aspects of your photography, and THAT is the difference between an actual photographer and just another person with a fancy camera who knows how to aim it and push the button.

My advice is: MASTER your kit lenses first. Squeeze every last drop of potential out of them first. THEN, when you FULLY understand EXACTLY how (if) they're limiting you, reach out and buy a "better" lens.

 

[qleak]

"What do you do when it's so bright that you can't open up your aperture to get the blurry background and round bokeh you want, even with the ISO as low as possible? Do you just crank down the aperture and then wonder why the background looks too sharp, not the buttery look you want? What do you think you'll do in that same situation with a "better" lens that allows you to open it up even more, when you simply CAN'T, unless you have some other way to get a handle on the light? That's where that ND filter comes in, by the way. Do you have one?"

If you open your aperture too much (lower f-number). You may not be able to get the shutter speed high enough to take a photo with a proper exposure.

There are other reasons you may want the shutter speed low too, you could be trying to convey motion with a little bit of motion blur. If you still want the background out of focus you may need to limit the amount of light in other ways (ND-filter etc). So yes, people use ND filters all the time for this. In particular moving water photos.

 

[Derrel]

What I am considering are:
35 f1.8
50 f1.4
85 f1.8
I want a great DOF, bokeh effect... I want my photos to be super sharp and dramatic looking.
Any thoughts?/

The 50/1.4 AF-S is not that much better (if indeed it even is any better) than the 50/1.8 AF-S lens...I would not spend the extra money for the 1.4 model. Just get the 50mm f/1.8 and use that. Indoors, the 85mm lens is very "tight" in field of view on an APS-C sensor camera, but the 85/1.8 is a superb performer optically. Zooms offer focal length flexibility, which is very valuable many times; changing the focal length allows a person to control the background width in situations where you cannot move back very much.

I think you might want to make haste slowly in acquiring new lenses. I would actually buy the 50/1.8 AF-S model first, and see for yourself how that fares in your shooting. See how it works for your types of shoots. It's exciting to get new lenses, to learn how they work, what they can do. The two zooms you have can be used as preview tools, so you can see how the framing will work out with 35, 50, and 85mm lenses.

 

[Dave442]

Just checked an image of a dogs face I did with the 35mm f/1.8 and at f/2.8 the nose to the eye is in focus. Camera to subject was 0.45 meter and the background was 0.75 meter from the camera and is nicely OOF.

Yeah, but what kind of dog was it? There is quite a jump in nose length from a pug to a German shepherd. ;-)

You got me there, its a baby schnauzer and head pointed down at that! The focus starts to fall off at the ears and the front paws are OOF so it was a bit close on being acceptable. In this case the short focal length helped as I was attempting to direct the dog where to look with one hand and shooting with the other.

 

[astroNikon]

"What do you do when it's so bright that you can't open up your aperture to get the blurry background and round bokeh you want, even with the ISO as low as possible? Do you just crank down the aperture and then wonder why the background looks too sharp, not the buttery look you want? What do you think you'll do in that same situation with a "better" lens that allows you to open it up even more, when you simply CAN'T, unless you have some other way to get a handle on the light? That's where that ND filter comes in, by the way. Do you have one?"

If it is bright, then increase your shutter speed. that should bring the exposure down. If you don't have fast enough shutter speed then you can use an ND filter - like if it's super bright outside.

You want to keep your aperture for what you are taking a shot of and the depth of field that you want. So you'll probably keep it fixed at, say f/7.1

Then if you keep your ISO fixed at 100

You then need a shutter fast enough to stop motion of the dog moving, AND to obtain a proper exposure, say 250.

If it's too dark you can slow the shutter to say around 125. But you don't want to slow down the shutter too much otherwise you'll introduce movement (from the animal or from your hand if you are not using a Tripod & remote release. --> Then you want to increase the ISO to maintain a faster Shutter and your Aperture.

At some point though, if it's too dark and as you increase the ISO you'll introduce noise .. then you have to add light (or increase the aperture opening which also changes the depth of field.

that's why they call it the Exposure Triangle .. ISO <--> Shutter <--> Aperture
==> Camera Exposure Aperture ISO Shutter Speed

It sounds like you do most of your shoots in a small room. So you are limited in how you can blur out the background. Those links above I provided on Depth of Field calculators will help you understand it a lot better. Play with changing the distance and aperture settings to see what it does, and practice on your camera. Use a stuffed animal to practice everything on.

you may also want to look into backgrounds for your photos ... an easy way to make sure the background is blurred out. Portrait photography opens up a lot of ways to spend a lot of money. Actually photography in general does that.

 

[Vtec44]

@lisameowrie I shoot at f1.6 in full sun all the time.

 

[petrochemist]

Are you saying I need to be shooting wide open all the time?

Definitely not!
The whole idea of camera controls are because there isn't a single setting that works 'all the time'.
Wide open will give the shallowest possible DOF, which will be right for some shots, possibly even most of your shots. With your current lenses their widest setting isn't very wide. Getting a 'better' lens will probably give you the option of going wider giving you shallow DOF & more light than you currently get.

Most lenses actually give their best optical performance closed down 1-2 stops from wide open. With a fast prime that could be around f/2.8 which would give less DOF than you are currently getting, from the sound of things what you're after. However the exact aperture (and other settings) required will vary with the subject, lighting, movement, shooting distance...
You can certainly have too little DOF (ask anyone shooting extreme macro, where it seems you can never get enough).

Achieving the perfect balance is a lifelong challenge. It's getting easier as sensors allow a greater range of sensitivities, but it's always going to need practice.