Need advice: photographer watermarked our wedding photos

[Gavjenks]

Don't hold your breath on this one there sparky. The OP's last foray in this forum was on 9/28/2011!! :lmao:

Ah thanks. That is sad. It was an interesting situation, and would have been neat to see if the guy worded it sneakily to cover his watermarking, or if it were actually just a lazy assumption / casual arrogance.

LOL@photographers, fauxtographers and phowannabes pretending to be legal experts on matters of copyright. :thumbup:

Are you a law student or something? You seem to have a lot of opinions on copyright that a copyright attorney might disagree with. Is is all conjecture, or is there something behind it? Or is this all from that book on photography legal issues I saw you post at one time? Since no one here ever saw the contract, and none of us here are copyright experts (that I know of anyway)... sort of useless to speculate, don't you think?

Yes, I agree with both of you. "Lol, useless," indeed. Because heaven forbid anybody research, learn, or talk about anything they are not a certified "expert" in. Anybody who does that must be desperate, foolish, have suspicious ulterior motives, or be formally working toward the aforementioned professional degree. Instead, we should all just have expensive professionals do everything for us and avoid any self-education or mutual sharing of knowledge in any way that does not directly relate to our own personal career. That's why I always have certified electricians change my light bulbs, plumbers unclog my toilets, and French chefs toast my bread in the morning. It's sort of useless to attempt any of these things myself, don't you think? Unnecessary effort, plus I might get a little dirt on my clothes and look poor in front of everybody else at the yacht club.

...Meanwhile, in the real world:

The law is relevant to every photographer, whether or not they happen to be a copyright lawyer, whether or not they can afford to go pay a copyright lawyer hundreds of dollars for opinions, and whether or not they happen to be able to find detailed, relevant, and up to date information about their specific situation in a static book (often not).

For those times when money isn't growing on trees and a situation is tricky or ambiguous, the most efficient alternative is to do basic personal research, most likely online, of current case law, local and federal statutes, etc. And if you don't know where to start or what terms to search for, forums are often a legitimate good first step in that research, to highlight which things ideas or facts you can go explore further or double check that you might not have considered before, for free. Similar to Wikipedia.

So no, I (and probably the other people talking about the law here) am not any sort of official expert. I don't have a law degree, I'm not working toward one. But I'm also not pretending anything or randomly speculating. I'm doing basic primary and secondary research (often an hour or so for a random post about something like this) and then sharing my results. Because:

1) I think learning is fun, and forum questions are a great inspiration for interesting questions to learn about.
2) I'm obviously a somewhat argumentative and rationally-oriented person, and the law is right up my alley as a hobby, and
3) I get to legitimately help people who couldn't afford a lawyer and might not be as experienced as I am at researching things, or who simply don't have the free time, and thus came onto a forum to ask other community members.

 

[ShooterJ]

Not that the OP cares considering the age of the post... but this IS interesting. Can an individual research something on their own? Sure... but that doesn't, and IMO, never will qualify them to give advice on it. The law is extremely complex.. a benefit of an attorney who has gone to school is that he/she is well versed in MANIPULATING the law as needed to serve the client/state interest. That's real world, that's how it happens. If you doubt that, you haven't spent much time in court rooms ( I HAVE spent a considerable amount of time in them watching attorneys find the loopholes)... I have a lot of training in military/law enforcement... could you google information on a lot of the things I've been trained in? Sure you could! Would that qualify you to be effective in doing or teaching those things? Not in your wildest dreams... you might be able to make an attempt on a paintball field, but nobody is going to put their life in your "expert" hands because you "read something"...likewise, I wouldn't put a legal matter into an individuals hands because they "read something"... in a legal matter, everything you do, say and record can mean the difference between winning or losing a case...and sometimes, it doesn't even matter if you're right (that depends on how good the attorney is on the OTHER side)...

Research to your hearts content, but if you go into a courtroom with a truly educated and seasoned attorney, he's going to chew you up and spit you out. I've seen it too many times when someone thought they'd "learned enough" to represent themselves.

 

[cgipson1]

3) I get to legitimately help people who couldn't afford a lawyer and might not be as experienced as I am at researching things, or who simply don't have the free time, and thus came onto a forum to ask other community members.

My one problem with this: Are you going to pay for an attorney to help anyone that gets in trouble from following your inexpert advice? It happens! (of course, if anyone is dumb enough to actually follow amateur legal advice obtained on the 'net, they probably deserve what they get).

But that would be the Antithesis of Helping Someone.... wouldn't it?

 

[ShooterJ]

3) I get to legitimately help people who couldn't afford a lawyer and might not be as experienced as I am at researching things, or who simply don't have the free time, and thus came onto a forum to ask other community members.

My one problem with this: Are you going to pay for an attorney to help anyone that gets in trouble from following your inexpert advice? It happens! (of course, if anyone is dumb enough to actually follow amateur legal advice obtained on the 'net, they probably deserve what they get).

But that would be the Antithesis of Helping Someone.... wouldn't it?

This would be why people I arrest have the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney.. you know, that part about "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"

There are good reasons people are told to seek legal advice from a professional. Hehehe

 

[Tailgunner]

3) I get to legitimately help people who couldn't afford a lawyer and might not be as experienced as I am at researching things, or who simply don't have the free time, and thus came onto a forum to ask other community members.

My one problem with this: Are you going to pay for an attorney to help anyone that gets in trouble from following your inexpert advice? It happens! (of course, if anyone is dumb enough to actually follow amateur legal advice obtained on the 'net, they probably deserve what they get).

But that would be the Antithesis of Helping Someone.... wouldn't it?

This would be why people I arrest have the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney.. you know, that part about "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"

There are good reasons people are told to seek legal advice from a professional. Hehehe

Yup, an officer is not your friend when being detained or arrested...talk about the weather but nothing else until you retain an attorney.

 

[KmH]

Not to start an argument, but I guess I just don't understand it.

Page 2 of Circular 12 (U.S. Copyright Office) states:

"Owner of Copyright
Only those deriving their rights through the author can own
copyright in the work. The author may transfer all or part of
the copyright to someone else." (Bold emphasis mine)

What am I missing? I read this to say that I can give, trade or sell the copyright of any of my works to someone else. Likewise I can buy or otherwise receive the copyright of someone else's work.

Yes. That is essentially what copyright use licensing is all about.

Use licensing usually stipulates the transfers is only valid for a limited time period, effectively making the use license a rental agreement as opposed to an outright sale.

Photo contests that are thinly veiled rights grabs include submission rules that demand the copyright owner grant usage in perpetuity, and in any manner the contest owners want.

"Work for Hire" only applies if there is a document signed by both parties stating "Work for Hire" applies - per Circular 9, page 1 - Definition in Law. http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf

. . .if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire. . .

 

[table1349]

Yup, an officer is not your friend when being detained or arrested...talk about the weather but nothing else until you retain an attorney.

Are these words of experiece or are you just guessing?

 

[ShooterJ]

My one problem with this: Are you going to pay for an attorney to help anyone that gets in trouble from following your inexpert advice? It happens! (of course, if anyone is dumb enough to actually follow amateur legal advice obtained on the 'net, they probably deserve what they get).

But that would be the Antithesis of Helping Someone.... wouldn't it?

This would be why people I arrest have the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney.. you know, that part about "anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law"

There are good reasons people are told to seek legal advice from a professional. Hehehe

Yup, an officer is not your friend when being detained or arrested...talk about the weather but nothing else until you retain an attorney.

That IS correct though.. if I have a reason to be putting you in handcuffs, I'm not your friend. I'm not your enemy either and depending on your circumstances I might even try to help with your case or speak on your behalf in court.. BUT, I still have a job to do and anything you tell me is evidence in the case at that point.

That being said, a word of caution if you are arrested and an officer does NOT read your rights... a lot of people start rambling because this wasn't done like they'd seen on TV. So understand the following...

I don't HAVE to read you your rights, unless I intend to question you. However, if you volunteer something, I CAN still use it. So whether you're given a Miranda Warning or not, just sit quietly and continue saying nothing.

 

[Tailgunner]

Yup, an officer is not your friend when being detained or arrested...talk about the weather but nothing else until you retain an attorney.

Are these words of experiece or are you just guessing?

Well, just say I have been known to break a few speeding laws in my younger days.

 

[table1349]

Well, just say I have been known to break a few speeding laws in my younger days.

 

[KmH]

"Officer, I appreciate and respect the job you do, but it is in my best interests to refrain from saying any more than I am legally required to without my legal representation present."

 

[ShooterJ]

Outstanding .. I appreciate your support and your right to remain silent. Get in the car.. I have **** to do.

:lmao:

Sorry...

 

[table1349]

"Officer, I appreciate and respect the job you do, but it is in my best interests to refrain from saying any more than I am legally required to without my legal representation present."

Too damn much fluff there Keith. As Nancy Reagan would have said. Just sy "NO!"

 

[nycphotography]

Yes, I agree with both of you. "Lol, useless," indeed. Because heaven forbid anybody research, learn, or talk about anything they are not a certified "expert" in. Anybody who does that must be desperate, foolish, have suspicious ulterior motives, or be formally working toward the aforementioned professional degree. Instead, we should all just have expensive professionals do everything for us and avoid any self-education or mutual sharing of knowledge in any way that does not directly relate to our own personal career. That's why I always have certified electricians change my light bulbs, plumbers unclog my toilets, and French chefs toast my bread in the morning. It's sort of useless to attempt any of these things myself, don't you think? Unnecessary effort, plus I might get a little dirt on my clothes and look poor in front of everybody else at the yacht club.

...Meanwhile, in the real world: ...

LOL grave digging on old threads aside... You've pretty much summed up my angst about the general attitude around legal, tax, business and regulatory issues. "Don't bother to learn anything, that's why we have $400/hr professionals. Oh, and make sure you get 20 licenses and 40 kinds of insurance."

What's even more remarkable to me... when I wanted to learn about all these different subjects growing up, I had to drag my ass down to the public library (or university law library) and spend a day wandering around skimming TOCs and indexes trying to find what books would be relevant. Now with the internet, theoretically at least, much more of this information is available to anyone who bothers to turn on their computer for anything more useful than watching porn. Yet, people today are even more ignorant than ever? Manage to explain that fact, and all of a sudden a whole lot of things about the world snap into focus.

BTW: If you bother to learn anything about the world around you, the types and amounts of "insurance" you need goes down dramatically. And paying an expensive professional to tell you what you already know (or could reasonably find out) certainly qualifies as insurance in my book. If I were Donald Trump, it might qualify as time management. But I'm not, so it still counts as insurance ;-)

 

[nycphotography]

3) I get to legitimately help people who couldn't afford a lawyer and might not be as experienced as I am at researching things, or who simply don't have the free time, and thus came onto a forum to ask other community members.

My one problem with this: Are you going to pay for an attorney to help anyone that gets in trouble from following your inexpert advice? It happens! (of course, if anyone is dumb enough to actually follow amateur legal advice obtained on the 'net, they probably deserve what they get).

But that would be the Antithesis of Helping Someone.... wouldn't it?

My problem here is that this is the same argument given to not administer CPR to a dying man. What if I break his ribs in the process and then he sues me?

By and large, this general refusal to assist is a cop out... generally based on ignorance or laziness yet usually expressed in terms of avoiding liability.