Should gays be allowed to marry?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Chat' started by voodoocat, Mar 3, 2004.

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Should gays be allowed to wed?

  1. Yes

    63.3%
  2. No, but I support civil unions

    16.7%
  3. No way

    20.0%
  1. voodoocat

    voodoocat ))<>(( Supporting Member

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    Obviously a hot topic these days. More and more cities are starting to give marriage licenses to gay couples to counter George Bush's proposal to ammend our constitution to ban gay marriage.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/regionalpolitics/2001870152_webgaymarriage03m.html

     
  2. urameatball

    urameatball TPF Noob!

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    oops, I read the title as "should GUYS be allowed to marry"

    and I was thinking to myself -- logically no...
     
  3. voodoocat

    voodoocat ))<>(( Supporting Member

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    Well as I said in another thread I'm surprised it is even an issue. Of course, we do live in a 70-80% christian country and most christians believe homosexuality is a choice and a sin. But I thought queer eye for the straight guy made gay mainstream... :scratch: :lol:
     
  4. oriecat

    oriecat work in progress

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    Wow, apparently I need to start watching the news a tad more, because I had no idea they started them here! :oops:

    There is absolutely no reason that gays shouldn't be given the same opportunities as straights. It's discrimination and it's wrong. There are no arguments for disallowing it that carry any weight. They are either based on religion, which has no place (or SHOULD have no place) in determining civil law, as we don't all share the same religion or religious views. Or then you get those arguments about how straight marriages generally end up in children, which gives back to society, so you get the benefits of marriage because you are going to have children, and that kind of bullshit. Well my boyfriend and I have no intention of having children but that wouldn't prevent us from getting married, or force us into some half-assed "civil union" which is just the modern day equivalent of a Jim Crow law. And there are plenty of gay couples who are adopting children and raising them or using surrogates... that's all I'm gonna say right now...
     
  5. Dew

    Dew TPF Noob!

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    i think its sad that this country, "the land of the free" doesnt put its money where its mouth is .... i also think its discrimination and cant help but be remined when an interracial marriage was illegal (in some states its still on the books as illegal)

    i've had gay friends all my life (i used to be a "fag hag") ... i have an uncle that's gay and a few cousins who are lesbian and the family doesnt treat them any different than anyone else ... i am so proud to be raised in a family (and extended family) where this kind of discrimination was not going on.

    im also happy to have a husband who is not homophobic (some men get skiddish around gay men) ..

    we had 2 gay males move right next door to us about 2 months ago ... we chat sometimes ... i saw one in the grocery store the other day (we talked in the milk section for about 20 mins :lol: ) .. this topic came up .. he and his lover have been together for over 6 yrs ... he says, "u know .. if my guy gets sick or has an accident and has to go to the hospital, im not considered family and they wont let me see him nor sign anything for him ... i cant even get him on my health insurance."

    when he said that, that broke my heart and i felt ashamed to be in a country that has hang-ups about people loving each other .. i felt like it wasnt fair :? ... i know i'd die if my hubby got into an accident and i couldnt see him ... i'd freak out

    its simply not fair and i predict with a little more effort ... things will change
     
  6. vonnagy

    vonnagy have kiwi, will travel...

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    everyone so far is very like minded, is there anyone here that is brave enough to make stand if they don't agree - i would have alot of respect for such a person to post there beliefs here as long as the person isn't radically offensive.

    I think its just as bad for 'liberal' folks to chastise christians as hatemongers when clearly not all them are- I know of some christians who do a great deal to help gays with aids, where most liberal just stand on the sidelines on the arses and complain about the problem. Yeah, they might be a bit preachy and not share the same beliefs, but at the end of the day they are are showing the most love in what they believe. Just trying to be a bit of a devil's advocate here :fangs:

    I am not a christian in any sense of the word, but I have friends that are very devout and i also friends who are total flamers... I can get along with both them because at the end the day - we are all human :)
     
  7. Dew

    Dew TPF Noob!

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    i dont think its fair to say that everyone should accept "gay"- ness in general ... but to prevent them from having the same equalities as everyone ... to go as far as forbidding it? ... i think thats a little pompus :lol:

    i just cant figure out why the government cant stay out of people's personal lives ... who are they protecting? .. and from what? .. my "gay" neighbors havent harmed me .. their not crazy (ok, the guy sings in the shower, but thats another story :lol:)

    but why do people care about someone eleses lifestyle? ... who does it hurt? ... the last i understood, church and state were seperate :?

    i just dont get why people go out of their way for things that dont affect them on a personal level .. im not saying agree with a gay marriage, but why stop them? ... u better than them? .. u feel superior? ... u can run off and get married to your prince charming/sweetheart and they cant? ... because you're far more superior? .. their not entitled to a family? ... but u are because ur more special?

    if my gay neighbors got married tomorrow .. how is it going to change or affect my life? ... right, it doesnt

    if your gay neighbors got married tomorrow, will your children play differently in the yard tomorrow?
     
  8. oriecat

    oriecat work in progress

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    Dew, you said everything I wanted to, but couldn't. I love your way with words. :heart: :love: Come to Portland, and I just might marry you... ;)
     
  9. Dew

    Dew TPF Noob!

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    i just may take u up on that offer :lol:

    this just ticks my funny bone ... i have not heard one valid lawful reason as to why they shouldnt marry ... i'd love to hear one .. imo this is right up there with racism, its sexism

    women fought through the sufferage, blacks fought through slavery and civil rights ... now the "gays" cant have theirs ... u must know that this will happen .. the gay community should gang up and boycott a lot of things .. hit them in their pockets ...

    but in the end, the gay community will be victorious .. we've been through this before (SSDD) ... it will happen, its a matter of time
     
  10. TwistMyArm

    TwistMyArm TPF Noob!

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    "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation."
    (Pierre Elliot Trudeau)
     
  11. havoc

    havoc Jedi something or other

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    I just learned about this as well, being a Portlander, i can't say how happy i am that Portland decided to grow some balls and jump into the "spotlight" on this issue. I used to have a very strong opinion against it, but now i can't think one good reason why they can't marry, AND get equal benefits as straight people under the law.
    What changed my mind? I don't know, it might be my recent liberal shift in nature, or my complete loss in faith and "organized religion". I don't know but i am really exicted that my hometown has decided to take a stand and take a chance on such a hot button issue these days.
    I am confident that gay people will win this fight because it is a just and right fight.
    With Massasscuses, San Francisco, Portland and now a city in New York allowing it, its only a matter of time before many more cities are allowing this. the train is rolling, and it will be damn hard to stop. I don't think even a republican attempt at a constitutional admendment can stop this train.
     
  12. Tammy

    Tammy TPF Noob!

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    OK.... I'm guess I'll go out on a limb here...

    I took the middle road in the poll because there wasn't a 'I haven't got a clue' option. Please don't get me wrong. I really don't care about what two people do in the privacy of their own home. If two people have a loving relationship I am happy for them - what I don't like is the special interest politics that seem to control so much of the discussion.

    I could be wrong about this, but seems to me that up until now, it has been understood that a marriage was between two people of different gender - a universal truth, if you will. Does anyone know of any society, anywhere until recent times - where this was not the case - someplace where if I said I went to a wedding - it wouldn't be assumed that meant between a man and a woman? (I truly don't know the answer to this question and am curious. )

    Historically speaking (going way back) , marriage was not usually performed for love, but for socio/economic reasons... Certainly all those kings and queens of england didn't love each other!... and what about arranged marriages.... Are there any cases of arranged marriages between members of the same sex? Even now a days, the marital arrangements between some of our political leaders lead me to believe that not all such arrangements are made for purely romantic reasons. So, if marriage has not always implied a loving relationship - but it has (until recent times) implied a relationship between a man and woman.... why not define a new relationship, a 'civil union', as a loving relationship between two members of the same sex, especially if that relationship is granted the same legal rights as a marriage. But it seems to me, that that won't be good enough.

    ******************************************
    Then again... there was a time when historically speaking I wouldn't be allowed to go to college and get an education because I have 'girly parts' - so just because things have always been a certain way - doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't change as society changes. But I am curious as to why this hasn't been worked out on a socio-economic level before now, I'm thinking there must be a reason.
    ******************************************
    and then, I read this, perhaps it sheds some light.

    http://marriage.about.com/cs/generalhistory/a/marriagehistory.htm


    .... so yep.... I haven't got a clue....it is beyond my abilities to determine what the best course is for our country.... for humanity.... etc.
     

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