Standards have dropped...

[limr]

That useage grew, because apparently some with "delicate sensitivity " took criticize, which had always been a neutral verb, as having negative connotations. Since then critique as a verb is accepted, but not universally so. Part of that lack of acceptance comes from the fact that there's a reluctance to use verbs derived from nouns, and partly because its French origin sounds pretentious.

Sources?

oooft! Even I woudn't be arguing that one

Which part? There are several unfounded (and spurious) claims.

 

[daveo228i]

Wow! From the opening post. A dictionary, criticism, to the state of society. Photography like other art forms, playwright, screenwriter, author, and all the other art form creators, invite critics. From the standpoint of the creator, criticism is unjust because the creator feels it to be a magnus opus. A percentage of creative people have a thin skin and any negative comments are taken very personally. Most creative people realize that criticism can be good . Of course the technical knowledge required to be a good critic is paramount. Unfortunately the internet, with its various public platforms, is tailor made for anyone to vent an opinion on any subject, and remain anonymous. It also provides people with the ability to display their artwork. I see people posting questions about the “zone system”. I would tell them to read Ansel Adams books, after all he devised the system. For landscapes, look to the past photographers who produced wonderful images in black and white or color. Street photography, fashion, portraits, all the reprinted by greats. Digital photography with it’s attendant post production software allows the mediocre, to enhance a poor image into a good photograph. Myself, I’m retired, a professional photographer who had the opportunity to work in several different fields of image making. Most of my work was published in school textbooks, all grades and children’s books. Another area was crime scene/forensic photography for a police department in a well known city. No creativity allowed.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[DanOstergren]

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with giving praise to photos that others might think are mundane or beneath someone else's standards. I think both praise and critique are valuable and useful, and no one should be made to feel that they can't give praise to someone's work just because others have higher standards, and vice versa. I also think that if a group of individuals feel that standards have fallen here and that there should be more constructive criticism happening, then those individuals should elevate their own work to match or exceed their own standards and start giving more constructive criticism, rather than complaining about and shaming others whom they think have mundane work and lower standards than they do.

Also I remember what this place was like a few years ago when the forum was much more active, and in my opinion people were harsh to the point of being mean, often. It was rarely a matter of people needing to "grow a set", it was that meanness, belittlement, and the act of cutting others down was accepted as "constructive criticism". I for one don't think it would be good for anyone if the forum were to revert back to that. Just my personal thoughts / constructive criticism on the topic.

 

[dxqcanada]

Constructive - : promoting improvement or development

I like it because ... I don't like it because ...

 

[bertsirkin]

I rarely post here, or on any other forums for that matter. Forums like this one have migrated to a "Facebook" mode. Admins and moderators tend to want people to "like" images, and many members of forums do just that. Facebook has created a environment where ANY image, no matter how good or bad, is "liked", and anyone with a camera can think that they're great photographer. Just the way CNN has adopted Fox News broadcasting methodologies (not necessarily their political stance), photo forums on the Internet have adopted Facebooks methodologies in order to generate more revenues.

It's why I don't post, and rarely look at, posts of photo forums.

FWIW, there are a very few good places on the Internet, 1x being one of them.

bert

 

[smoke665]

It's why I don't post, and rarely look at, posts of photo forums.

TPF is a place where all opinions count, no one being anymore correct than another, but this one confuses me. Based on your comments, it appears you've created somewhat of a paradox. You don't post, you don't look at other's posts, but yet here you are posting why you don't post???????????

 

[bertsirkin]

TPF is a place where all opinions count, no one being anymore correct than another, but this one confuses me. Based on your comments, it appears you've created somewhat of a paradox. You don't post, you don't look at other's posts, but yet here you are posting why you don't post???????????

I get summary emails from TPF, and the title of this thread intrigued me.

I don't post, because I strongly feel that critique is incredibly important in a photographer's development, and have always included both praise and critique in my forum posts. I have found that most forum members only want the praise, not the critique. Often their response is negative and condescending - something I try not to be. So, I found that not frequenting online forums is the best option for me. I find that being a member of one or more local camera clubs to be a much more rewarding experience.

 

[smoke665]

I get summary emails from TPF, and the title of this thread intrigued me.

I don't post, because I strongly feel that critique is incredibly important in a photographer's development, and have always included both praise and critique in my forum posts.

If you don't read the emails, nor post followups then why bother??? Not being difficult but in your post you say "Often their response is negative and condescending - something I try not to be", yet your post comes off as both????

I would agree with you there are many who are only in it for the "Likes", critique for them that involves anything negative falls on deaf ears. Then there are those who offer critique that is either vague, opinionated or uninformed. There is a responsibility on the part of the person seeking critique to give clues as to what they seek comment on. General or vague comments like C&C or comments welcome, will usually result in vague or off the wall comments unless there are obvious technical issues. There is also a responsibility on the part of the one giving critique to be careful of comments by offering correct advice in a helpful manner, while noting that opinions are just that. TPF started a new C&C Gallery a little while back that provides an excellent place for the critique. A sticky note at the top gives guidance to both sides on posts to facilitate useful information. If you haven't checked it out I'd highly recommend it.

Had a look at your website, you have some nice work, and likely have some valuable insight that could help others.

 

[mrca]

I have won and judged professional competitions and got there though years of getting critique and one thing someone posting must realize, unless they specify, folks will provide constructive analysis of the shot. Don't expect to always be able to ask about the problems with an image because you don't know what you dont know. Remember, this is a subjective medium so take ANY instruction with a grain of salt but be prepared to honestly ask yourself if the suggestion makes sense. If there is no title, sometimes it is difficult to devine what the maker was trying to accomplish. In one competition I always included a rule violation that was critical to the message of the shot just to screw with the judges. As for those critiquing, refrain from personal insults, demeaning comments. Folks are there to learn and I don't think you would want someone to teach you that way. Remember, it isn't just what you say,m but how you say it. As a judge, I always like to analyze in terms of a "crap sandwich." Start with something complimentary on the image, there has to be something. Then gently suggest what you would do or would like to see. Then conclude with a another good point of the image. It helps temper the criticism. Unless you are one of those who were gifted with a "good eye" requiring no improvement, we all started at the beginning of this photo journey so remember how you felt then. I am sooo thankful the first competitions I entered with critique of each image was anonymous.
Where are folks posting photos for critique here, I would be glad to help. I roust my butt out of bed early some saturday morning to judge competitions because it is a way of giving back for the folks that took the time for me. The thing that will improve your photography the most isn't a lens, a camera or some other gizmo, it's good criticism both on your images and the images of others.

 

[Tinstafl]

I rarely post stuff here any longer. Why is a combination but many of my shots are for publication and I have to wait till they are published before posting. Also they have different requirements than your standard shot with people. There is a need for empty space to put in copy or a need for a different crop. For instance cutting the top of the head off a bit. You get a lot of people yelling on that but in a publication it makes the eyes much bigger and the face bigger at the expense of a bit of hair. look and you will see that in many shots. That is not an excuse for not producing good shots that follow the rules at times but it depends on what you are shooting for and the end result you wish. Landscapes rarely have reason to have odd crops but still need some negative space if for nothing more than to put the location of the shot inside the picture. That us usually why sky was invented I would say. I shoot for a couple travel companies and some swim suit companies and the suit in this case is the subject not the girl. The travel shots want you to see yourself there. Just remember the reason you are shooting and the end result. That said there was a site that I was part of that required you to critique three shots for each one you posted. This helped me a lot and I got lots of good feedback.

 

[zombiesniper]

I do both “nice image” and provide feedback on images.

The nice image comments are sometimes because the person has been here a while and I know from their post or history that they are improving and I like to give them a chance to find and correct the flaws themselves. The nice image is more of a way of saying that they are progressing and should continue. I know not very exciting but sometimes people just need encouragement.
Other times the poster is too new and I’ve stopped giving feedback on new members unless asked for. Too many wasted posts trying to help just to be told I’m wrong.

My feedback can come in two flavours as well.
First is as well though out post as my feeble mind can produce in order to aid in explaining a solution. The other is a blunt statement for those that insist in posting crap and tell me they’ve got it all figured out.

I tend to not waste my time with flavour number two anymore.

As for the definition of words. Use whatever definition you wish…….just don’t expect others to follow.

 

[Dean_Gretsch]

The other is a blunt statement for those that insist in posting crap and tell me they’ve got it all figured out.

Ok, now every time I have posted a photo, and I get no comment from you, my sensitivity will whisper this quote to me

 

[zombiesniper]

No worries there. You do great work......but maybe I need to look a little closer.

 

[ntz]

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with giving praise to photos that others might think are mundane or beneath someone else's standards. I think both praise and critique are valuable and useful, and no one should be made to feel that they can't give praise to someone's work just because others have higher standards, and vice versa. I also think that if a group of individuals feel that standards have fallen here and that there should be more constructive criticism happening, then those individuals should elevate their own work to match or exceed their own standards and start giving more constructive criticism, rather than complaining about and shaming others whom they think have mundane work and lower standards than they do.

Also I remember what this place was like a few years ago when the forum was much more active, and in my opinion people were harsh to the point of being mean, often. It was rarely a matter of people needing to "grow a set", it was that meanness, belittlement, and the act of cutting others down was accepted as "constructive criticism". I for one don't think it would be good for anyone if the forum were to revert back to that. Just my personal thoughts / constructive criticism on the topic.

it's everybody's responsibility ... in both ways .. if you ignore on giving a fair feedback however it would be negative, you're not helping to the other side who is presenting a his/her own work just exactly because they are expecting some kind of feedback ..

if you are not prepared for fair feedback which you might not like, don't post here, as simple as that ..

if somebody is douchebag who can't write a constructive post without insulting the other side, then the problem is on his/her side and others shall stand up for the presenter no matter on how the photo of presenter looks like ..

 

[flyingPhoto]

I see lots of praise being given to mundane shots.

what exactly constitutes a mundane shot?

IS it merely a photograph of something you find dull and boring? Or is there a scientific approach being used?

dictionary says lacking interest or dull, or mundane, non religious in nature...