Strobe lights vs umbrella cont.light vs softbox.Where to start for low budget first studio home kit?

[angelusagendi]

It seems everyone that starts with continuous lighting has many, many problems and end up either just dealing with it or upgrading to at least cheaper speedlight flash or strobe systems.

I had a large writeup about the different bulb types many months ago but in short,
Continuous may say "500 watts". But you have to remember the bulb type. A regular light bulb or twisty flourescent puts out light in ALL directions. Thus only a small part of that 500watts is actually going towards the subject. So you quickly find out that you need longer shutter speeds to compensate because the light is much, much less; which is slower than needed for portrait. Then the bulbs (even LED ones, except for the ones that cost about $100 each) give out very distracting color thus WhiteBalance issues. Then light is spilled all over the place and any wall painted a different color may give an unwanted tint. Edit: I also need to add that you will probably be mixing Ambient (regular sun light) and the Continuous Light, which will probably give you weird skin colors.

It's not about the light that your eyes see, but about the light that the camera's sensor sees.

I won't recommend any continuous light EXCEPT for product photography. Any time "portraits" or images of people are of concern then one MUST have a shutter speed at say 1/125 or higher and then the lighting HAS to be strong enough and controllable.

There are continuous lighting systems that are great, but FAR above your budget limit.

For #2 .. of the "good" continuous light photo studio ... can you provide examples of what you define as "good" and exactly what the setup was ? Many can be "good" but then they start asking how to improve and quickly come across their lighting setup as the stumbling block.

Good evening,

Thank you so much for such a detailed reply. To answer your question, basically, I saw my photos on her computer screen and they looked decent (but I admit not top quality possible..).

So you would recommend to get like 2 strobe lights (which are around 100$/each)? Buy softboxes for it too. Right? Please, tell me more. I appreciate your help.

 

[angelusagendi]

(Oops! Disclaimer, I am not a pro. just an enthusiast)

I took @Derrel's advice several years ago now, and invested in the flashpoint series. They have been perfectly reliable, and I am quite happy with the purchase . I had previously used cheep continuous lighting from ebay and they were utter junk.

I added in some manual Phottix Area triggers that have worked flawlessly with all my flashes.

As for light modifiers, My favorite modifier is completely unconventional.
I take a bounce umbrella, and shoot that through a white shower curtain clipped to a boom stand set in a "T" position. It mimics window light BEAUTIFULLY! and is so much easier and quicker to set up than a soft box. It also takes up less space. You can flag the light with some black fabric panels to shape/narrow the spread. I can add an example image if you are interested.

Hi there, thank you for your reply. Your idea about the light modifier is so interesting and creative. I also checked your Flickr account. Very nice photos

 

[angelusagendi]

I have 4 Flashpoint monolights (2-1220's and 2-320's) and 3 cheap ebay 150ws mono lights. Amazingly the cheap ebay lights are still working. But since acquiring the Flashpoints they don't get used very often. With hot lights, especially the inexpensive ones. There are several issues. 1- they use multiple bulbs, and not all of them match color wise. There is no adjustment for them other than removing a bulb. And or moving them closer or further back from subject. It's harder to use smaller light modifiers on some hot lights. Like snoots, and barn doors. If you can at all!

If your budget really doesn't allow for monlights and hot lights are all you can do. Then so be it. But if you possibly can start with just 1 flash. You will be better off in the long run. You can use an inexpensive reflector for secondary light off a flash. Many people here have successfully used off brand flashes that are less than $100 and down to $50 each. Yongnuo is one of them.

check out strobist.com for some lighting info on the cheap if you have not already done so.

Hi! Thank you for your reply. I will definitely consider your advise.

 

[angelusagendi]

FLASH will work 20 times better than those low-output, pigtail fluorescent tubes!! Seriously...with the continuous lights, people pictures will be a chore...think f/7.1 at 1/6 second at ISO 320...UGGH!!! Yeah, like maybe one-sixth of one second!

Flashpoint II FP320SB2 Monolight Kit, 150 Watt Second

FLASH has light that is on, to focus and see by, but has a powerful, FAST burst of flash, that can stop motion and prevent blury images.

Thank you Derrel

 

[angelusagendi]

Don't waste your money on those cheap continuous lights. As Darrel said they are way under powered. The difference between them and any type of flash is literally night and day.

If you are in the US or Canada, and since you specifically said you were going to do this "in home", and wanted to stay "under $500", here's my recommendation. Go with the Alien Bee B800 and the 47" Octobox as your start. Paul C. Buff - AlienBees B800 this comes with a PC cord to connect to the camera. Strobe, modifier, and stand less than $500. This will give you the starting piece of a studio kit that will grow with you in the future. Instead of throwing money at stuff you'll rapidly outgrow and not use again.

You will be amazed at what you can do with a large softbox ando a piece of cheap white foamcore as a reflector.

Thank you very much. This was helpful

 

[angelusagendi]

Since I have recently done exactly what you are asking (with flashes not continuous) I will go over my experience.

I started getting into lighting in Dec of last year by purchasing the following.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B008S1W19Q/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0142KIVY0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This was an excellent start and I could have quite adequately learned a great deal about lighting with just this kit. I could still pull this kit out, use it and get near exactly the same images as I do with the equipment I have now.
But I wanted something more permanent.

So I bought....

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B001O111OS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This kit looked like what I needed and admittedly has done me pretty well in the last 8 months.
But it does create a problem for someone that is new to lighting. The urge to use ALL the light because you have them. Trying to solve a lighting problem by turning on another light without understanding what the first light is doing is going to slow down the learning process.
I did learn a tonne with this kit but it does have it's drawbacks.
The backdrop framework. Light weight and not terribly sturdy. Okay for home use but it would not hold up to heavy use. I have since replaced it with a roller system.
The muslin backdrop is actually the best part of the kit. I have some more expensive Cameron backdrops and the one in the kit is of similar quality.
The monolights. They work as advertised and work quite well. They are all plastic and very easy to damage. Unlike a sturdier unit if you drop or knock over these....they're garbage. The modeling bulb is a weird two pin bulb and not the standard screw in. I have only one modeling light still working. These lights are only use as background or hair lights and will soon be replaced.
The soft boxes that come with these do not come with any standard mount and are virtually useless on any other lighting system.

Would I purchase this kit again if I had it to do over? No.
I would have went with a single (maybe 2) better quality lights and a single soft box for each. The money spent is pretty much only renting the lights because they will fail and will have to be replaced.

So I am now at the point I'm replacing my lights with 2 of these.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01HGRVPIK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and since the current soft boxes wouldn't fit I had to get 2 of these

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01HGRVPIK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

In the couple of weeks that I have been using these I can say that they are kilometres (miles for our US/UK brethren) ahead of the other lights and are the minimum quality I should have started with.

It may seem counter intuitive to spend your hard earned cash on the more expensive kit but as is true in most cases the better quality kit is cheaper in the long run.

If you were to look around you could easily get a decent backdrop frame, backdrop (paper or muslin) a couple of light stands, a couple of quality lights and a trigger set for under your budget.

The last thing I will advise is look at the range of lighting offered by your prospective brand. It again is often cheaper to purchase monolights and flashes from the same brand since the triggers are normally compatible with both types of lights.


I know Long read.

Cliff notes read my purchase recommendations and save yourself some time and money

Hi!!! Wow... You impressed me. Thank you for sharing your story and taking time to go into details.

I just have a few questions...
You said: "and since the current soft boxes wouldn't fit I had to get 2 of these

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01HGRVPIK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
" BUT it is the same link that is above that sentence. Is there a wrong link?

Also, what are your thought on this: why some people use only softboxes and others only umbrellas?

I appreciate your help.

 

[angelusagendi]

Thank you so much everyone. I wrote notes according to your recommendations. I appreciate that you took time and replied. It is not easy to absorb all of this and understand it clearly when you're a beginner. Simple things like why to use umbrella vs softbox vs a combination of umbrella+softbox.
Then monolight vs strobe/flash lights...

I'll definitely take your advise and start slow but with good quality. I am just getting confused a bit due to so many advises. Beginner crisis lol.

Anyhow, all of you are so kind. Thank you again.

 

[Derrel]

THE inexpensive Godox monolights that zombiesniper mentioned look pretty good, especially for right around $99 each!

https://www.amazon.com/Fomito-Compa...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B017RBDEUM

 

[Derrel]

Softboxes come in various mounting types: some use an umbrella-type shaft; others use a dedicated, brand-specific speed ring that mounts to the flash unit; some use a rather generic mountin g ring that can be literally "strapped to" the flash unit; it's important to understand what, exactly, is necessary to mount a specific softbox to a specific flash unit!

I personally LIKE "umbrella boxes", like the Photek Softlighter II, or the Lastolite Umbrella Box, or Made in China knock-offs of the Umbrella Box, like the ones sold by Steve Kaeser Enterprises, on-line.

 

[smoke665]

Derrel reminded me of something. One thing you need to be aware of when you get a softbox is how it mounts to the light. Even a midsized unit has some weight to it, plus they are bulky. Whatever you get make sure it's solidly mounted. Myself I prefer the speed ring for secure mounting.

 

[astroNikon]

It seems everyone that starts with continuous lighting has many, many problems and end up either just dealing with it or upgrading to at least cheaper speedlight flash or strobe systems.

I had a large writeup about the different bulb types many months ago but in short,
Continuous may say "500 watts". But you have to remember the bulb type. A regular light bulb or twisty flourescent puts out light in ALL directions. Thus only a small part of that 500watts is actually going towards the subject. So you quickly find out that you need longer shutter speeds to compensate because the light is much, much less; which is slower than needed for portrait. Then the bulbs (even LED ones, except for the ones that cost about $100 each) give out very distracting color thus WhiteBalance issues. Then light is spilled all over the place and any wall painted a different color may give an unwanted tint. Edit: I also need to add that you will probably be mixing Ambient (regular sun light) and the Continuous Light, which will probably give you weird skin colors.

It's not about the light that your eyes see, but about the light that the camera's sensor sees.

I won't recommend any continuous light EXCEPT for product photography. Any time "portraits" or images of people are of concern then one MUST have a shutter speed at say 1/125 or higher and then the lighting HAS to be strong enough and controllable.

There are continuous lighting systems that are great, but FAR above your budget limit.

For #2 .. of the "good" continuous light photo studio ... can you provide examples of what you define as "good" and exactly what the setup was ? Many can be "good" but then they start asking how to improve and quickly come across their lighting setup as the stumbling block.

Good evening,

Thank you so much for such a detailed reply. To answer your question, basically, I saw my photos on her computer screen and they looked decent (but I admit not top quality possible..).

So you would recommend to get like 2 strobe lights (which are around 100$/each)? Buy softboxes for it too. Right? Please, tell me more. I appreciate your help.

The link I gave was to a Kit that contained strobes, light stands, mounting kit and diffuser boxes.

FYI (the links I have are of the first ones I found there are cheaper alternatives)
shoot-through umbrella are the cheapest, but also spill light all over the place. The light goes through the umbrella, also bounces back so light can really go in any direction but mostly forward.
Function = You shoot through the umbrella.
example ==> Lastolite LL LU212

Then there's bounce umbrellas which are basically shoot throughs with a block covering with a lining (or maybe not on cheaper ones) to bounce light back. This prevents light spilling all over the place and the light only goes forward.
Function = You shoot into the umbrella and the light bounces back.
example ==> Photoflex UMRUT

Next you have a "brolly" which provides 2 stages of diffusion. The initial bounce, then an outer layer. Just like the bounce umbrella but just with another level of diffusion. This gives you a softer light than the umbrellas.
Function = You shoot into the umbrella, light bounces back and goes through a diffuser layer for softer light
example ==> Photoflex UMRUT

Then to control light even more as in how wide and how tall you get into diffusion boxes.
such as this softbox which you can add a grid too which allow light only traveling in a forward direction to get through
Function = You shoot into the box which may contain one or two diffuser panels (one mid point inside) and the box control the light to be essentially the shape of the box example ==> Westcott Apollo

and don't forget when you get to the softboxes they need adapter rings to fit to the strobes. So you want to stay away from cheap/proprietory strobes that may limit your select or stick you with higher priced options.

The softboxes come in all shapes and sizes from 5 foot tall and 1 foot wide to large square 7 foot ones to small 6 inch ones. It allows you to put light where you want to put light. You can also add things called grids, etc and can also use snoots, or barn doors, etc for more and more control.

So as one advances and wants to do more at some point strobes will be used. You can use things such as a 4 speedlight kit but the adapter and speedlights can cost so much that they are more than going with a strobe option.

You can also get a lot done with reflectors to balance out lighting left to right.

The light bulbs/flourescent lights just don't emit enough directional light to use more advanced options. And the ones that can emit a lot of heat and can catch boxes on fire. Think of how hot a 200watt light bulb gets then put it into a fabric box where the heat can rise uncontrollably.

 

[benhasajeep]

I personally LIKE "umbrella boxes", like the Photek Softlighter II, or the Lastolite Umbrella Box, or Made in China knock-offs of the Umbrella Box, like the ones sold by Steve Kaeser Enterprises, on-line.

I just recently ordered a 47" speedlight umbrella softbox to try out. 47" is pretty big for a single speedlight. But I have several 3-light brackets so can put several lights in there as needed. A monolight would probably fit inside as well.

 

[Derrel]

Well, contrary to popular believe a speed light can and will fill even a fairly large Modifier. One thing that using multiple speed lights does allow one to do, is to cut the power to each light and get faster recycling and longer battery life, since each flash is only doing 1/3 of the work. When set to quarter or half power and speed light will recycle much more quickly than when it's at full

 

[DandL]

Dear Pro photographers,

I read many postings about the first Photo Studio Kit for the Beginners, and many of you don't advise cheap lights from Amazon etc. However, not everyone can afford pro lights right away. Yes, we should save for the better equipment, but in theory if we have the budget below 500$, what can be done to set up a nice home studio? I have a few questions and really hope you can help. This forum is just amazing, and your help so much appreciated.

THANK YOU very much.
Angelus

You might consider buying used like this: Einstein 640 Kit
Sean is a member on this forum. Einstein strobes are great for the money. I would have been all over this deal if I hadn't purchased a used one last month.
I know his asking price is over your "theory" budget but maybe he would be willing to split up the package. The only thing you would need to add is a light stand.

 

[Jamesaz]

Back in film days I met another photographer whose lighting philosophy was "there's plenty of light, it's just a question of how you direct it."
This is in line with what was mentioned previously that a lot can be done with reflectors, mirrors, masking, clamps and stands.
Someone else did not like hot lights but they can be very very useful, just hot so caution. Lowell tota light (I think its called) has barn doors, screens, scrims and a lever changes it from spot to wide. You can also soften with layers of diffusion.
I'm guessing your camera can do custom white balance.
Have fun.