T-grain vs. "classical"

Discussion in 'Film Discussion and Q & A' started by Actor, Aug 10, 2009.

  1. Actor

    Actor TPF Noob!

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    It's been a decade or two since I was last in a darkroom. Since then B&W films seem to have split into two categories: T-grain films and everything else, with everything else being called "classical" film. So I have two questions: (1)What exactly is T-grained film? (2)I've seen advice both here and on other forums that beginners should avoid T-grained film. Why?
     
  2. ann

    ann No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Tmax is very finnicky and i,ho needs some testing to deterime the best EI and development times, This is why in my classes i don't recommend tmax for beginners, they have enough to deal withm without doing fuilm test. delta400 seems a bit more forgiving

    tgrain refers to the look of the grain which does appear to be a t rather than a traditional dot
     
  3. compur

    compur No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    When T-grain films were first introduced they
    earned a reputation for being less forgiving
    of processing errors so newbies were advised
    to start with "classic" emulsion films.

    Since their introduction, though, the T-grains
    have been improved so the warning may not be as
    necessary as it once was.

    T-grain films have differently shaped, flatter
    grains that produce an effect of greater image
    sharpness. However, there is a trade-off. Many
    believe the sharper images tend to lack the tonal
    range of conventionally grained films (I agree).
    This may be due to the reduced silver content of
    T-grain films. Also some people just like the
    look of conventional grains in a photo.

    Pulling T-grain films often improves their tonal
    rendition but then you're sacrificing speed.

    My own opinion is that certain images can benefit
    from the look of T-grain films and some are best
    done with conventional grain films. One is not
    necessarily better than the other. It's just another
    choice of materials for photographers.
     
  4. c.cloudwalker

    c.cloudwalker TPF Noob!

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    I hope Actor won't mind my asking a question on his thread...

    What do you guys recommend for a classic film that can be found in 8x10 size? Been a while since I've done B&W work. Thanks.
     
  5. Actor

    Actor TPF Noob!

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    Go right ahead.
     
  6. c.cloudwalker

    c.cloudwalker TPF Noob!

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    Hope they come back :D
     
  7. ann

    ann No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    can't beat the old but true trix, however, i have also used hp5 plus
     
  8. c.cloudwalker

    c.cloudwalker TPF Noob!

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    Ok. For some reason I thought Tri-X was gone. And the Ilford films never did much for me.

    Thanks.
     
  9. Dwig

    Dwig TPF Noob!

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    T-grain films have silver grain clumps that have what Kodak terms a "tablet" shape (not T shaped), sort of like a common asprin tablet (some photomicrograhs I've seen show them as irregular hexagons with 3 long sides and 3 short sides like a triangle with the points cut off rather than round). The wide, large area side faces out toware the lens. The large flat face exposes the same surface area to the light as a classic spherical grain clump over twice as thick. This allows a thinner emuslsion and greatly improved sharpness without loss of emulsion speed (ISO). In simple terms, T-grain films offer higher sharpness at the same ISO or higher ISO at the same sharpness.

    There are other side effects to the different grain shape that impact how the films respond to processing modifications and what developers give optimal results.
     
  10. CSR Studio

    CSR Studio TPF Noob!

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    Have you tried FP4? It is great. Also, if you did want to get into a T-grain, the Delta 100 is beautiful. My favorite B&W was tech pan but since it isn't available anymore, I use the Delta 100. Which Ilford have you tried and why do you not like them, just out of curosity?
     
  11. timor

    timor Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I agree, Delat 100 and TMX properly exposed and developed have very long tonal range and sharpness. But they need proper treatment and in days of introduction many photographers didn't know, how to deal with them, thus the label of "difficult".

    Woops !:lmao: I didn't noticed, that this thread is that old ! All, cause Josh has a problem with T-grain in Diafine. :wink:
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  12. Josh66

    Josh66 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I've never used Delta 100 (I keep meaning to try it, but always end up buying something else, lol) - I do like TMax though. ...I need to get some more of that too.
     

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