Beginners Gallery or Sub-Gallery

[Dioboleque]

Unless there is one I somehow missed, I want to make the suggestion for a Beginners Gallery or Sub-Gallery where those viewing it will know what quality to expect when viewing as well as the types of critiques which generally will be needed, and the posters can post free of the fear of being called out for posting something less than art. :sillysmi:

 

[Overread]

I understand the fears of new people when posting photos into places where there seems to be such a high level of quality I really do. But my personal opinion is thus:
The jusfication of this is a side step away from the real problem of people fearing being called inadiquate by others. A fear of being labled a failure and not being helped. I don't think moving the newer people to another area is the right move at all - better is dealing with these cases where they feel that they are being treated unfairly - that I think is a better move and is dealing with the problem at hand.

Further, at what level is a beginner not a beginner anymore - I might count myself as one till I have been at it for years, or unless I have a degree in photography. Its is a little too hazy and I think in the end it would end up as a general photography section with many people simply not leaving

 

[caspertodd]

I guess I'm on the fence on this one. I agree with what Dioboleque is suggesting, but I understand your point Overread. If there was a beginner gallery, I personally would be more inclined to post what I feel are beginner photos.

 

[Dioboleque]

I do see lots of posts moved to the Gallery from The Beginners Place, maybe if the beginners gallery was a sub-forum of The Beginners Place... as I can't really tell who of those who have responded are beginners, I will say that as a beginner myself I have seen lots of negativity toward beginners photos in the regular galleries, and despite the fact there is a seperate gallery for Pros, this does not seem to deter people from commenting that some members photos have no place in even the General Gallery. I absolutely did not post in the Pro Gallery and I found that, while I was seeking critique on technical aspects as I am just learning, people didn't want to critique my pics because of, as I was told, uninteresting subject matter. If people around here are going to be that discriminating about subject matter, there should definitely be a Beginners Gallery where viewers can focus on the technical aspects of the photo rather than the subject matter, because I know when learning to use my camera I wasn't waiting around for the most arty or interesting subject matter to practice on. Refusing to critique technical aspects of a beginners photo because they find the subject matter boring is just asinine. So, my own experience combined with comments I've seen made by others led me to this suggestion. I don't really think there are too many Galleries, but I'm all for organization and easily finding exactly what I'm looking for, if others don't see a need for it, so be it... but the reality is that some people are afraid to post, and some people do get crushed for posting what others consider not up to TPF standards, and if experienced members are going to abuse the beginners in this way, I feel it's best to give the beginners photos a home of their own. And as for the beginners leading the beginners, that wouldn't have to be the case, and even if it were, I'd say it's better than having the beginner being totally ignored by the more experienced. The way I see it the case would be that the beginners would received comments from experience people who ARE THERE PURPOSELY to help. :sillysmi:

The point imo was to give beginners somewhere they could feel comfortable and save those more experienced who don't wish to interact with those on the lowest level from having to unless they absolutely want to, thus solving the problem on both ends. But, I've been wrong before... :sillysmi:

 

[Overread]

I agree about that part, but I feel that first beginners should be made welcome in the existing subections of they may never leave the beginners section (meaning lots of new threads and thus more chance of people getting pushed down and onto second page quickly)
I would say clear up the problem with negative atitudes towards new photographers and then give the beginners their own section

 

[kellylindseyphotography]

I support the suggestion.

 

[Dioboleque]

I mentioned this idea in another thread a couple of days ago...

I think it's a great idea... give the noobs their own picture gallery subforum attached to this one... they can hone their rudimentary skills here and eventually post intermediate work and above in the actual galleries.

and for the actual galleries I think it would help to limit picture uploads to one or two per thread. This would allow better focus for constructive crit instead of "I like pic's #3, 8, and 17 best"

:sillysmi:

 

[Kawi_T]

The point imo was to give beginners somewhere they could feel comfortable and save those more experienced who don't wish to interact with those on the lowest level from having to unless they absolutely want to, thus solving the problem on both ends. But, I've been wrong before... :sillysmi:

" ... those more experienced who don't wish to interact with those on the lowest level ... "

Wow! What a statement! You mean to say experienced photographers wont interact with me because I'm inexperienced? I don't even know how to take this. Talk about the shallowest of the shallow. And how did the experienced photographer gain any experience to begin with? At one point even the experienced were noobs, back then did anyone help them learn? Maybe they were forced to learn on their own because no one would interact with them.

I feel there is no need for a beginners section.
Tom

 

[Dioboleque]

Yeah, kinda harsh, isn't it? I'm glad to hear u haven't witnessed any of that sort of behavior in your time here and hope that u never do! :sillysmi:

 

[skieur]

All the galleries are beginner's galleries. Many posters have not given a serious photographic comment beyond: "I like it." or "great shot" several hundred times. No experienced photographer would take this kind of response seriously at all.

It is rather ridiculous, when in answer to a request for C. & C., a serious photographic critique is given and the result is the characterization of harshness or instant insult and bruised ego.

The expectation that experienced photographers should act like moms giving gentle, diplomatic, encouragement suggests that we are dealing with adolescents that have never grown up. MAYBE WE ARE.

skieur

 

[Dioboleque]

My reason behind this suggestion is not to save beginners from serious photographic critique, but rather give them a chance to receive serious photographic critique from those willing to help people just starting out who are going to make what others would consider obvious mistakes. A gallery of lowered expectations if u will, where those viewing and commenting are well aware of the skill level and are willing to politely offer the criticism and tips needed to improve, where less skilled can feel free to post their work and be confidant that their posts will received constructive comments rather than being totally ignored, or commented on that the subject matter is too boring to bother critiquing it technically or that it's just a snapshot. The goal is to connect the beginners with those more experienced who are interested in helping them without unnecessarily degrading or insulting them. Beginners are looking for guidance and I'm sure there are those here who would guide, not MOM like guidance, but rather Teacher like guidance... factual and honest without being insulting and rude. :sillysmi:

 

[Dioboleque]

I see that the words '& Photo Gallery' have been added to The Beginners Place so I guess this is no longer an issue. :sillysmi:

 

[terri]

All the galleries are beginner's galleries. Many posters have not given a serious photographic comment beyond: "I like it." or "great shot" several hundred times. No experienced photographer would take this kind of response seriously at all.

It is rather ridiculous, when in answer to a request for C. & C., a serious photographic critique is given and the result is the characterization of harshness or instant insult and bruised ego.

The expectation that experienced photographers should act like moms giving gentle, diplomatic, encouragement suggests that we are dealing with adolescents that have never grown up. MAYBE WE ARE.

skieur

What of it?

Everyone comes to TPF with different skill sets, equipment, and expectations. In that light, we must also accept that all those who are new to photography will have different reactions to being told their first exciting shots might fall short of "good" photography. While we can't control member conduct, the fact remains that there have been many times a more experienced photographer has practically slapped a beginner for actually liking their own shots - even those full of the technical mistakes of inexperience.

Members are free to place their images in any Gallery they wish, of course. The original intent of having a Beginner's Forum, separated from Beyond the Basics, was to keep images out of these discussion-only forums. However, given the harshness of some of the Gallery comments, and the clearly expressed desire fromt many of the newer photographers to have an acknowledged Gallery where one can only expect to see beginner's efforts, it seems a small thing to expand the Beginner's Forum to include images.

Note the revised forum description:

Brand new to photography, or brushing up on some of the basics? Don’t be shy! Talk to other beginners and ask all your basic photographic questions here. Show us some of the photos you have taken so far and get some review - so you can learn where there is room for improvement!

We hope the tone will be more supportive here, as we move forward.

 

[dEARlEADER]

What of it?

Everyone comes to TPF with different skill sets, equipment, and expectations. In that light, we must also accept that all those who are new to photography will have different reactions to being told their first exciting shots might fall short of "good" photography. While we can't control member conduct, the fact remains that there have been many times a more experienced photographer has practically slapped a beginner for actually liking their own shots - even those full of the technical mistakes of inexperience.

Members are free to place their images in any Gallery they wish, of course. The original intent of having a Beginner's Forum, separated from Beyond the Basics, was to keep images out of these discussion-only forums. However, given the harshness of some of the Gallery comments, and the clearly expressed desire fromt many of the newer photographers to have an acknowledged Gallery where one can only expect to see beginner's efforts, it seems a small thing to expand the Beginner's Forum to include images.

Note the revised forum description: We hope the tone will be more supportive here, as we move forward.

Wow.... democracy.... logic.... I love this place.... thanks TPF mods....

This will both help noobs... and intermediates who have expressed concerns about bad noob shots...

 

[kundalini]

Dio, I think you are making this much more of a tangled web than it needs to be. Regardless of ones skill level, if you have questions on technical issues about your photo, it seems to me that all you have to do is ask the questions which concern you. See this example. (I'm hoping I remembered the issues you raised in the other thread which linked back to this one)

Post a photo, ask your questions and absorb the comments. Throw out what is not pertinent and learn from the constructive ones. I really think it's that simple. If you are genuine with your request (be specific), then I truely believe you will receive genuine responses. Follow my link and judge for yourself. It will be interesting for both of us.