Best way to fight compression - examples included

[Parker219]

I take a photo in raw. It looks fine. I import in to lightroom. I edit it in raw, it looks good. I export the raw files to jpgs- resizing them to 5 x 3.333 since I know they will be used for a small photo.

I look at the jpegs that are saved to my computer and they look great.


THEN they get uploaded to their final spot, the spot that they need to look good, the spot that I have been preparing them to look good at from the start.......and they look like crap.


My theory, and I could be wrong, is the compression methods are different for each site, for example flickr says they are full resolution, but the site I HAVE to use, must be trying to cut corners or something, I don't know.

Anyway, is there anything I can do to help my photos look better? Maybe DECREASE the clarity to -10, which gives them more of a soft look, and maybe they wont have the weird artifacts and look so bad image quality wise.

The photos are real estate related, so a dreamy, not as sharp look is not a bad thing.

I know photos will help, so let me show you what I mean...


Jpeg off my computer -


Photo off the website I want to look the same as the jpeg off my computer-

 

[Parker219]

^ You may have to click on each photo to notice it more. I see it in the cabinets and ceiling a lot.

 

[Parker219]

This-


Turns in to this-

 

[Designer]

You've got better eyes than I, but I don't see what you're talking about.

I do see that the far end of the room is not in focus.

I chimed in mostly to say that I think the exterior shot needs some perspective control applied.

 

[Parker219]

^ Its very obvious, but thank you.

 

[Overread]

When you make a photo smaller the software has to cut out pixels. This often results in the final resized version of the photo being softer. As a result you have to resize and then sharpen your photos. The photos on your website are being resized and likely with a resizing method that does not apply any sharpening (Photoshop has the option to apply it whilst places like flickr apply it automatically).

If you only need 800*600 then resize yourself in photoshops - touch up with some sharpening and then upload and display that size only.

 

[BillM]

I can really see it in the first but not as much in the second. And I am guessing you are right, the web site is applying compression. The file size is starting at 679 kb and it is being compressed to 33 kb.


And you might want to take my wood duck shots out of your photostream, you don't want people to think you took those horrible shots lol

 

[Parker219]

I can try to resize to 800 by 600 to see if that works. When I hear "sharpen" I think that will cause more artifacts and degrade the quality even more though. So I don't know. The problem is, when I send these photos in to be uploaded, they go live right away. Its also not easy to experiment because I am not the one that uploads them, and it takes awhile for changes to be made.

Also they use the photo for other purposes that are bigger than 800 by 600.

 

[Parker219]

I can really see it in the first but not as much in the second. And I am guessing you are right, the web site is applying compression. The file size is starting at 679 kb and it is being compressed to 33 kb.


And you might want to take my wood duck shots out of your photostream, you don't want people to think you took those horrible shots lol

Wow, see that is a lot of compression. Thanks for reminding me, I took the photos off.

 

[KmH]

For online display digital photos have no physical dimensions like - " resizing them to 5 x 3.333 ".

Online, the size a photo is displayed is dependent on the resolution of the display device (xxxx by xxxxx pixels), the pixel dimensions of the space allocated on the web page for images, and the pixel dimensions of the photo.

To a large extent you can control the image file size when you convert to JPEG. That is what the Quality slider does. If you use a Quality setting of 10 - 12 the file size will be larger.

Next you need to understand what options you have available, and their effect, when you reduce the size (pixel dimensions) from the 1251 px on the long side to only 800 px.
I am referring to Re-Sampling the image pixels for reduction.
There are several re-sampling algorithms to choose from. Which one are you using?

http://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/advanced-cropping-resizing-resampling-photoshop.html

Resizing and resampling imagesWhen you resize and resample an image, you change the amount of data in that file. To resample your image, ensure that Resample Image is selected at the bottom of the Image Size dialog box. Resample is on by default.
Resampling changes the total number of pixels in the image, which are displayed as Width and Height in pixels in the Image Size dialog box. When you increase the number of pixels in this part of the dialog box (upsampling), the application adds data to the image. When you decrease the number of pixels (downsampling), the application removes data. Whenever data is removed from or added to the image, the image quality degrades to some extent. Removal of data from an image is typically preferable to the addition of data. That's because upsampling requires that Photoshop guess which pixels to add. This procedure is more complex than guessing which pixels to remove when you downsample. You get the best results working with images that you bring into Photoshop in the proper resolution for the output you want. You could get the results you need by resizing your image without resampling. However, if you resample your images, do so only once.
When you turn on Resample, you can change any of the values in the Image Size dialog box: pixel dimensions, physical size, or resolution. If you change one value, then you affect the others. The pixel dimensions are always affected.

• Changing the pixel dimensions affects the physical size but not the resolution.
• Changing the resolution affects the pixel dimensions but not the physical size.
• Changing the physical size affects the pixel dimensions but not the resolution.

You cannot set the file size; it changes when you change the total amount of data in the image (the pixel dimensions). Note the file size value before you change the other values in the dialog box. Then, you can use the file size information to understand how much data is removed or added to your image when you resample it. For example, if the file size changes from 250 KB to 500 KB, you add twice as much data to the image, which can degrade it. Degraded images can look blurry, jagged, or blocky.

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[h=2]Resizing images without resampling[/h]

When you resize an image and do not resample it, you change the size of the image without changing the amount of data in that image. Resizing without resampling changes the physical size of the image without changing the pixel dimensions in the image. No data is added to or removed from the image. When you deselect, or turn off, Resample, the pixel dimension fields are not available. The only two values you can change are the physical size (Width and Height in Document Size) or the resolution (pixels/inch). When you resize without resampling, you can set either the physical size, or the resolution of the image. To keep the total amount of pixels in the image the same, Photoshop compensates for the value you set by increasing or decreasing the other value. For example, if you set the physical size, Photoshop changes the resolution.
When the pixel dimensions are constant and you decrease the physical size of an image, the resolution increases correspondingly. If you decrease the physical size of an image by half, the resolution doubles. Twice as many pixels can fit into the same space. If you double the size of an image, the resolution decreases by half, because the pixels are twice as far apart to fit the physical size.
For example, an image is 400 x 400 pixels, has a physical size of 4 x 4 inches, and has a resolution of 100 pixels per inch (ppi). To reduce the physical size of the image by half without resampling, you set the physical size to 2 x 2 inches. Photoshop increases the resolution to 200 ppi. Resizing the image this way keeps the total number of pixels constant (200 ppi x 2 x 2 inches = 400 x 400 pixels). If you double the physical size (to 8 x 8 inches), then the resolution decreases to 50 ppi. Adding more inches to the image size means that there can only be half as many pixels per inch. If you change the image resolution, the physical size changes as well.
Important: The pixel dimensions control the amount of data, and the resolution and the physical size are used only for printing.
Note: Pixels per inch (ppi) is the number of pixels in each inch of the image. Dots per inch (dpi) relates only to printers, and varies from printer to printer. Generally, there are 2.5 to 3 dots of ink per pixel. For example, a 600-dpi printer only requires a 150- to 300-ppi image for best quality printing.

 

[Parker219]

After you import in to lightroom and click on "develop" then edit the photo in raw, if you right click the photo and click export, that's how I am doing it.

Then it gives me options as to what folder to put the photo in, file naming, and then image sizing. Right on that screen, I am changing the image size by dimension to 5 by 3.33 with the resolution 300 ppi.

The next option says Output sharpening and I have it set to NONE. Should I change that to sharpen for screen? Low, Standard, and high are my choices.


Is my workflow wrong or what should I try doing?

 

[Parker219]

Remember I am not looking for sharp photos, I am looking for better image quality when its uploaded to the website.

 

[Gavjenks]

Well a couple thoughts:
1) You could try to use a file format that doesn't have any lossy compression, like PNG. Chances are if the website is cutting corners they simply won't allow PNG or will have too restrictive of a size limit, but it's worth a try. If it lets you, then you are guaranteed not to have any unexpected compression artifacts with that format. You could still have resizing artifacts, but see #2:

2) You could take into consideration the smallest size monitor that most of your clients are likely to have OR if there is an enforced, standard size the website demands, then that size. Then use a program with high quality compression algorithms to compress it to be natively so that the website has no need to do any more resizing or compression on its own. This may or may not succeed, since it's possible that some places would just run it through an algorithm anyway dumbly. But also worth a try. I notice that one of your images is 1251x1000 pixels and the other is 800x600, so it seems you might not already be doing this. Do everything you can to encourage the website not to have to change anything on its own. If it wants 800x600, give it something already 800x600 and already within its size limits.

Both 1 and 2 in conjunction is best, if possible.