Digital mirrorless Leica "SL" (rumor)

[runnah]

But I still think it will be better yhan people think

Probably, but not good enough to justify the price.

Same way i feel about D810/800 and D4

How dare you question the value of Nikon! If anything Nikon should cost double because they are the best camera made.

 

[gsgary]

But I still think it will be better yhan people think

Probably, but not good enough to justify the price.

Same way i feel about D810/800 and D4

How dare you question the value of Nikon! If anything Nikon should cost double because they are the best camera made.

And they are pig ugly

 

[Derrel]

Here are some links to the official Leica web pages in North America. A good deal of information is here.

Leica SL // Photography - Leica Camera AG
Details // Leica SL // Photography - Leica Camera AG
Downloads // Leica SL // Photography - Leica Camera AG

They have eight .DNG raw files for download, averaging about 28 megabytes each, on a fast server, plus a tech specs PDF, and a small catalogue of 9.7 megabytes. I downloaded the .DNG files and am going to look at them directly in a bit.

 

[cgw]

Leica is fast becoming Sony's AMG division.

What a load of rubbish

Really? Prove it.

 

[runnah]

Leica is fast becoming Sony's AMG division.

What a load of rubbish

Really? Prove it.

Oooo it just got brought'ed!

 

[Derrel]

But I still think it will be better than people think

I have to agree-and I think the initial reactions to this are going to be largely negative, but opinion will turn once it gets more widely in use.

I just spent some time going through the brochure with an open mind, and really thinking about what Leica has brought to this design. I think this thing is going to be an absolute head-knocker of a photographic tool. It's not aimed at the masses, or the weekend walkabout camera crowd. This thing looks to me to have absolutely industry-leading EVF performance, good eye relief, exposure simulation visible through the finder, the ability to make use of a lot of lenses via official Leica-made adapters, it shoots FAST if desired, shoots video, and appears to have very few design compromises, and the camera control and setup options are highly programmable by the user. Leica has gone Apple iPhone Simple on controls/interface, with the very highest-grade materials and specifications, and it's NEW, and not tied to some outdated legacy lens or flash system. It's very hard to make something complicated be something simple if it's tied to the current "historical" camera design idiom. This camera is NOT a Blackberry or a flip-phone.

This camera is designed differently than others of its era. I think it will seem unfamiliar and foreign to the many tech-head, 30-something hipster types that write for the tech/photography press and the techie web sites, but I think the camera will be a hit with people who want a superb photographic instrument, and who have the means to afford the lenses for it.

I think if this had been released by Canon or Sony or Nikon, people would be lined up around the block to buy this thing. Again...I read the brochure fully today...with an open mind. This thing is a mil-spec type tool...this is some serious sh** here. Yes, it is big. Yes, the lenses are large. But I think this is a new direction that might be as influential as the iPhone has been on phone design. Remember what a Blackberry used to look like?

 

[Solarflare]

Ming Thein actually hid an important point about the Leica SL in another posting of his, with the probably most boring subject, ever (Why do overpriced luxury cameras sell):

The SL is an interesting discussion in itself: whilst there’s been a lot of technical admiration for some aspects of the camera’s performance, a quick scan through comments on my review and other sites reveals there is zero lust factor at work. In fact, I don’t recall a single person on my site saying they wanted one, even in an ‘if-I-could-afford-it’ (and many of my readers could) situation. It may well be one of the least desirable cameras I’ve seen if the comments are anything to go by. There is no aesthetic factor, there is minimal technical factor, there’s no status factor, and it doesn’t really fill any niche as a pure specialist tool, either.

 

[Solarflare]

A rather positive look into the SL: Some Thoughts On The Leica SL - Luminous Landscape

The actual review of the camera is hidden behind a paywall.

 

[Solarflare]

Another comment from Ming Thein on the SL here.

I agree that Leica should have rather made a Q with exchangeable lenses.

Instead, they made a mirrorless S with a smaller sensor.

 

[Derrel]

Ming's unparalleled hubris has drawn a couple of sharp rebukes from the blogosphere, one from a well-known blogger, the other from an obscure blogger who was formerly an active TPF member. First of is Kirk Tick, putting Ming Thein on blast, by name: The Visual Science Lab.: A popular blogger has written a blog in which he implores camera makers to let him consult. For free. Hmmmm. Not sure I want that.

Second, Andrew Molitor's blog entry about Ming's idea that wholesale changes could be made effortlessly by camera company desginers, so that cameras might be 100% Ming-ideal: Photos and Stuff: Product Development

 

[Bebulamar]

In the end it doesn't matter what you all think about it, it will sell China is where most of them will go

I think you're right! Rich Chinese people like expensive high tech.

 

[Solarflare]

Fun fact about the rich: they are a small minority !

Also, dont they all already have their Hasselblads ?

 

[Solarflare]

The Visual Science Lab.: My Thoughts on the Leica SL.

They obsess about camera features that real photographers will find unimportant while ignoring the one dominant attribute a true Leica should possess; absolute image quality. And that absolute image quality comes from the design and manufacturing precision of the lenses and the necessary tight tolerances of the camera and sensor integration with the lenses.

Well ... okay. If image quality was all I'm after, I would get a 4x5 or even 8x10 large format camera. People say the IQ you get from such a camera pales everything else in existence.

So in my understanding, if you buy a Leica for just that, you pay a lot for a rather small difference.


P.s.: Ooops, actually forgot to give the link to the original article. Sorry about that.

 

[RitchieE24]

Steve Huff hasnt handled a SL yet, but is already rather critical of it.

Amusingly he still has missed the main issue: the SL is a HUGE HEAVY BLOCK OF METAL.

As the picture from the Ming Thein pre-review clearly show, the camera with the only available lens (24-90mm f2.8-4.0) is larger than a Nikon D810 with an AF-S 24-120mm f4 VR convenience zoom.

Given Steve Huffs comments for example on the Nikon Df, I think its thus very unlikely that Huff will ever warm up with the Leica SL

I read Ming's preview...the camera seems to have a few issues, and the lens is MASSIVE and HEAVY, especially for the focal length range. Any lens like that that uses 82mm filters is a fattie...it's like having a Folger's coffee can mounted onto a small body, and as is obvious from the photos, the camera does not look like it could handle lenses in that kilogram and up weight class--that's one of the types of lenses that really do function, handle, carry,shoot better on a full-sized body like a D3x or D4,etc..--a body with a palm swell, ergonomically-designed handgrip. The dPreview pic shows the "grip" is just a simple, straight-line swell...this thing appears like it has 1950's ergonomics--meaning "none".

It seems like there are some REALLY nice aspects to the SL, but also some weaknesses. I was shocked, truly shocked, to see it compared against the D810 and 24-120VR...wow--it is more offensive tackle than linebacker!!! I was surprised to read that the lens suffers at the longer end of the zoom range...not really all that great for a $4,400 or whatever mid-range zoom...

My guess is that HUff will not like its handling--he's a carry and shoot constantly type of guy. However, the SL might prove itself to be a nice test platform for M-series and other lenses.

Yeah but you don't buy a Ferrari because it's easy to park, you buy it because it's a status symbol. Just like this camera, it's heavy, impractical and crazy expensive but it shows all the plebes with their canon/nikons that you are a man of good tastes and means. Heck they could slap that red badge on a solid block of aluminum and peopled show up in droves.

Steve Huff hasnt handled a SL yet, but is already rather critical of it.

Amusingly he still has missed the main issue: the SL is a HUGE HEAVY BLOCK OF METAL.

As the picture from the Ming Thein pre-review clearly show, the camera with the only available lens (24-90mm f2.8-4.0) is larger than a Nikon D810 with an AF-S 24-120mm f4 VR convenience zoom.

Given Steve Huffs comments for example on the Nikon Df, I think its thus very unlikely that Huff will ever warm up with the Leica SL

I read Ming's preview...the camera seems to have a few issues, and the lens is MASSIVE and HEAVY, especially for the focal length range. Any lens like that that uses 82mm filters is a fattie...it's like having a Folger's coffee can mounted onto a small body, and as is obvious from the photos, the camera does not look like it could handle lenses in that kilogram and up weight class--that's one of the types of lenses that really do function, handle, carry,shoot better on a full-sized body like a D3x or D4,etc..--a body with a palm swell, ergonomically-designed handgrip. The dPreview pic shows the "grip" is just a simple, straight-line swell...this thing appears like it has 1950's ergonomics--meaning "none".

It seems like there are some REALLY nice aspects to the SL, but also some weaknesses. I was shocked, truly shocked, to see it compared against the D810 and 24-120VR...wow--it is more offensive tackle than linebacker!!! I was surprised to read that the lens suffers at the longer end of the zoom range...not really all that great for a $4,400 or whatever mid-range zoom...

My guess is that HUff will not like its handling--he's a carry and shoot constantly type of guy. However, the SL might prove itself to be a nice test platform for M-series and other lenses.

Yeah but you don't buy a Ferrari because it's easy to park, you buy it because it's a status symbol. Just like this camera, it's heavy, impractical and crazy expensive but it shows all the plebes with their canon/nikons that you are a man of good tastes and means. Heck they could slap that red badge on a solid block of aluminum and peopled show up in droves.

Not to mention it's UGLY. Looks like something a highschool kid would make in machine shop class when told: "Go make a camera shaped object"...

 

[Solarflare]

Yes, the SL is also made from a solid block of aluminium, just like the T.


Steve Huffs opinion has somewhat changed: The Leica SL (type 601) Camera Review.

It was a hard choice as to which camera would make my “Camera of the Year 2015” as the amazing Sony A7RII had it in the bag a few weeks ago. Then this SL hit me and surprised me with an amazing overall user experience, which is VERY important when using a camera. It’s the main reason I do not give the Sigma DP series much love here as the user experience is awful with those cameras even though the IQ is incredibly good. I prefer a camera that looks great, is built to a high standard, is easy to use, reliable, fast and has amazing image quality. While the Sony A7RII has all of this, the Leica has a little more, and even though its more than 2X the cost of the Sony, you can really tell this when shooting with it so it’s not just an inflated price for a red dot sticker. [...]

Using M lenses on the SL is a dream as the EVF is mind blowing good and the best EVF made to date, from any manufacturer…and yes, you can quote me on that one. [...]

The SL is in reality, more like a Mini S Type camera. [...] BTW, the Q sensor here has been “tweaked” for the SL.

The fact is that after using the SL I would choose it over the M 240 these days due to the great feel and build, the sensor, the EVF and the joy of using M glass on the camera (Until the next M of course). [...]

This time around the new out of the box Leica is not glitchy nor has my SL frozen or gotten stuck. I have not had to remove the battery for a reset … no issues at all, and the camera as a whole has been stellar in every way. [...]

The new SL is full frame but uses the T mount. The T camera is APS-C but Leica made it with a mount large enough for full frame. Larger than even the M mount. I guess that they had plans all along For this reason, to use M glass on the SL you need the T to M adapter from Leica. This will send info to the camera when using authentic Leica M lenses. This means the SL will adjust for corrections just like the M does.

Some people believe the L Mount might even offer enough space for the Leica style medium format 45x30mm sensor.

[...] It is a new era for Leica as they have created a system camera that beats every single mirrorless camera made today, and IMO, beats any DSLR (but I am not a DSLR guy) with its build, simplicity, EVF, and overall quality and usability. [...]

Really, the SL has amazed me every single day with what it can do, and I am shocked because in the past there was usually a compromise with Leica. [...]

I truly feel Leica has taken all they have learned in Digital and created a no compromise camera that for me, beats the M, beats the S and beats the other Leica cameras of today (X, T, etc). It is without question the best digital camera from Leica I have ever used. [...]

All in all it has something of a fanboy rant, really. Between the lines I see a couple of ergonomics issues. Much like the Q, in that respect.

Now of course we have the incredible Sony A7RII which is still one of my top fave cameras EVER. It offers SO MUCH for less than half of the Leica SL and I will never sell mine.

Um. Never, until next year, I persume. After all, everybody seems to think Sony can still improve a lot about the A7r II - the operation speed, the reliability, the menu system. In short really everything that doesnt end up making pretty numbers in reviews.