DNG or RAW?

[sekhar]

I can tell ya if I ever upgrade to a new camera that LR3.6 can't read I will move all my files to DNG.... Maybe sooner.

I don't think it supports the new Nikon D600 or Canon 6D.

It's pretty dumb.

Or devious...I guess they think these guys spent a few bucks on a FF, they're going to shell out more for an LR upgrade.

 

[JDFlood]

I will just keep using RAW until I need to use a tool that does not support RAW. Then I will use Lightroom (or whatever I use then) to convert all to a newer format or the one that looks like it will be around the longest. There are billions of digital pictures out there... RAW is unlikely to go extinct Shan you are not looking. JD

 

[usayit]

Are we ALL going to wake up tomorrow and suddenly find our computers won't read NEFs and CR2s?

No one said tomorrow... Can you or anyone guarantee it won't happen... NO.

Garbz is correct.. you obviously working off a very simplified view of the problem and a very simplified view of the solution. Without the willingness to learn the details and rely only on your assumptions speculations this is now pointless. We've tried to respond with solid reasons and all we get back are more speculations, guesses, and assumptions.

You claim it will never happen.. but you won't accept evidence of ancient things we cannot explain or ancient texts of old languages that we cannot translate. This is the same problem.

After all this, you probably think reverse engineering proprietary formats is easy, reverse engineering Betamax tapes is easy, and specific technologies will never disappear from being decades obsolete. Notions not rooted in reality.



I have an old data tape from a company that went defunct 20+ years ago written in a proprietary format via a proprietary interface. Care to give it a shot? First part of the problem is already solved.... its based on a data quality VHS tape.

 

[sekhar]

Are we ALL going to wake up tomorrow and suddenly find our computers won't read NEFs and CR2s?

No one said tomorrow... Can you or anyone guarantee it won't happen... NO.

Garbz is correct.. you obviously working off a very simplified view of the problem and a very simplified view of the solution. Without the willingness to learn the details and rely only on your assumptions speculations this is now pointless. We've tried to respond with solid reasons and all we get back are more speculations, guesses, and assumptions.

You claim it will never happen.. but you won't accept evidence of ancient things we cannot explain or ancient texts of old languages that we cannot translate. This is the same problem.

After all this, you probably think reverse engineering proprietary formats is easy, reverse engineering Betamax tapes is easy, and specific technologies will never disappear from being decades obsolete. Notions not rooted in reality.



I have an old data tape from a company that went defunct 20+ years ago written in a proprietary format via a proprietary interface. Care to give it a shot? First part of the problem is already solved.... its based on a data quality VHS tape.

This is actually a pretty fascinating behavior trait (refusing to accept facts that don't conform to what you already believe), check out this article on cognitive dissonance that talks of an experiment on this.

 

[dbvirago]

I don't believe in cognitive dissonance

 

[480sparky38 37]

........You claim it will never happen.. ......

Really? Where?

You're just assuming WAY TOO MUCH!


Let me restate my position: I can work with proprietary NEF files today. I have no doubt that some day, far into the future, I MAY not be able to. May is the key word here.

But should that even happen.... IT WILL NOT HAPPEN SUDDENLY. What part of that do you not understand?

If I can convert my NEFs to DNG TODAY, what even is going to happen in the future that will SUDDENLY make that impossible for me?

If Nikon and Adobe close their doors today, will the software I have just.... quit... working?

And in that far-fetched scenario, do you honestly think I'll wait until my computer and software no longer function before I act to save my work? Seriously?!?!?!

 

[usayit]

pointless.

We started discussing which is more viable in long term.... Since you can't win there, you now want to discuss the notion that it may or may not happen and how quickly. A discussion that is so rooted in conjecture and guess work its not worth debating. Just like insurance, you always assume it will happen... worst case scenario.

Just like all of the subjective statements you present as so called proof... none of it matters.

In the end, it doesn't matter if/when/how quickly it doesn't change the fact that proprietary formats is more viable in long term preservation.

 

[480sparky38 37]

.....

You now want to discuss the notion that it may or may not happen and how quickly........

Again.... where did I claim it will not happen?

Never mind. You're right. It's pointless. Can't have a meaningful discussion when words are put in my mouth.

 

[usayit]

Here again.. a distraction


Let's say I change it to

"You now want to discuses how quickly or slowly it happen".


You still ignore the fact that how quickly or slowly it happens doesn't change the fact that open source/well documented formats are STILL more viable than proprietary formats.

Care to prove other wise? or are you going back to your previous statement that reverse engineering is "easy".

 

[BrianV]

Nikon attempted to prevent Adobe and other software manufacturers from working with NEF format files in 2005. Nikon encrypts the white-balance data in their files, starting with the D2x. Firmware updates for existing cameras implemented the new feature. The Digital Millenium Copyright Act makes it illegal for companies to reverse engineer the file format to bust the encryption scheme. Adobe stopped supporting NEF until some weasel-word agreement was reached with Nikon. Nikon can back out of this agreement at anytime. They are weasels.

http://photoshopnews.com/2005/04/17/nikon-d2x-white-balance-encryption/

Note the asterisk next to Nikon for supported raw formats.

http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/extend.html

and with the asterisk, comes the weasels.

http://www.adobe.com/special/products/photoshop/nikonraw.html

Exactly how does encrypting portions of the file that they use to store your images benefit you?

I can read the DNG format and implement my own software, if desired. It is based on the TIFF 6.0 spec of 1993.It has been around for a long time, and is not hard to get at the image data. My wife had image files from a digital microscope camera that made use of the multi-image per file option of TIFF, and I had to write software to read the file and write new files with 1 image per file. This was over 15 years ago. I don't think that many software packages support the multi-image file option.Three of my cameras produce DNG files directly. No doubt in my mind that i could write my own FORTRAN code to unpack it.

Trying to reverse engineer proprietary compression schemes from the file alone is non-trivial. IF the compression scheme is implemented in an ASIC, good luck with that. I would rather have a format that is open and documented. A company that hides my images behind the DMCA: forget them.