Done with Adobe

[jaomul]

I got DxO optics 8 for free recently (its often given away free with magazines but you can sometimes get it online if you google it), I'm sure 9 will be free soon enough somewhere. Last years software is usually great (for free) as long as it's up to date enough to recognise your cameras raw file

 

[goooner]

LR 2-5 is about to be discontinued on my Mac and PC. It is too cumbersome and I HATE the CLOUD!

Not looking for open source. If there is a "kind" soul with "experience" outside of Adobe I would appreciate some advice- Thank You in advance

I'm in the same boat. The subscription is close to 15 dollars here in Europe. I started a thread on Paintshop pro x8 ultimate. I will give it a go next year. It seems quite affordable, for what you get.
Corel Paintshop pro x8 Ultimate | Photography Forum

 

[Jim Walczak]

These are simply my own opinions, so PLEASE take them as such...

First and foremost, I would want to consider your work flow...how much editing do you do, what kind/how extensive, etc.. Using Adobe as an example, how you work in Lightroom and what most people generally use it for, is rather different than how most folks use Photoshop. If you do "simple adjustments" and need cataloging features (ala Lightroom), then obviously your needs are going to be different than if you do heavy manipulations via Photoshop.

I will say that personally I'm not one of those people who feels some insane need to buy the "latest/greatest" software every time a new update comes out. Like others, I too feel this whole Cloud thing is...well...stupid. You're not buying the software, you're just renting it (which is why I bought my own home...hated throwing money away when we were renting an apartment...and I don't lease cars either). In fact when I upgraded to CS 5.5, the ONLY reason I did so was because I was taking college classes at the time...that's what the school was using (at the time) and being a student, I was able to get PS for cheap thru the school...otherwise I'd probably still be using CS3. So on that note, I would have to agree with Derril there...if you already have an older copy of PS/LR and it does what you need it to do, then just use it and don't worry about CC.

Beyond that, while I know we weren't considering "open source" here, I do have to say in all honesty that if, for some insane reason, I had to give up my Photoshop, yea - I'd probably be using Gimp instead. It's certainly not Photoshop, but I was quite amazed at how good Gimp actually is. I've used a number of programs over the years...I find Coral to be REALLY annoying and Aperture is just WAY to "Mac-centric" for my taste (sorry...even after having worked on them for some 5 odd years now, I still -hate- Macs). For basic editing I thought Capture One was pretty decent, but I tend to do a lot of more extensive manipulations, so compared to PS, I found it quite limited...for what I do and how I do it, if push ever came to shove, again I would probably use Gimp. Not sure why you've chosen to exclude open source, but if you need more extensive editing capabilities, you may wish to give that some consideration.

So with all of that said, again I think it really depends on how you work and what you're looking to accomplish. If push comes to shove, just trying Googling "photo editing software" (or whatever your specific needs are) then download some demo versions to find what works best for you to see what you'd be comfortable with.

Again, just my own opinions.

 

[Jim Walczak]

These are simply my own opinions, so PLEASE take them as such...

First and foremost, I would want to consider your work flow...how much editing do you do, what kind/how extensive, etc.. Using Adobe as an example, how you work in Lightroom and what most people generally use it for, is rather different than how most folks use Photoshop. If you do "simple adjustments" and need cataloging features (ala Lightroom), then obviously your needs are going to be different than if you do heavy manipulations via Photoshop.

I will say that personally I'm not one of those people who feels some insane need to buy the "latest/greatest" software every time a new update comes out. Like others, I too feel this whole Cloud thing is...well...stupid. You're not buying the software, you're just renting it (which is why I bought my own home...hated throwing money away when we were renting an apartment...and I don't lease cars either). In fact when I upgraded to CS 5.5, the ONLY reason I did so was because I was taking college classes at the time...that's what the school was using and being a student, I was able to get PS for cheap thru the school...otherwise I'd probably still be using CS3. So on that note, I would have to agree with Derril there...if you already have an older copy of PS/LR and it does what you need it to do, then just use it and don't worry about CC.

Beyond that, while I know we weren't considering "open source" here, I do have to say in all honesty that if, for some insane reason, I had to give up my Photoshop, yea - I'd probably be using Gimp instead. It's certainly not Photoshop, but I was quite amazed at how good Gimp actually is. I've used a number of programs over the years...I find Coral to be REALLY annoying and Aperture is just WAY to "Mac-centric" for my taste (sorry...even after having worked on them for some 5 odd years now, I still -hate- Macs). For basic editing I thought Capture One was pretty decent, but I tend to do a lot of more extensive manipulations, so compared to PS, I found it quite limited...for what I do and how I do it, if push ever came to shove, again I would probably use Gimp. Not sure why you've chosen to exclude open source, but if you need more extensive editing capabilities, you may wish to give that some consideration.

So with all of that said, again I think it really depends on how you work and what you're looking to accomplish. If push comes to shove, just trying Googling "photo editing software" then download some demo versions to find what works best for you and what you're comfortable with.

Again, just my own opinions.

 

[Jim Walczak]

I really don't understand why so many people hate LR and PS CC. Literally the only thing different is paying $10/month and that's nothing for how useful both products are

I can't speak for others, but personally I don't like CC because it's no different than leasing a car or renting an apartment...you're lucky to get your security deposit back when you move and you really have NOTHING to show for it. In the case of Photoshop, I actually still have all my older copies that I've purchased (or upgraded) over the years...if push ever came to shove, I could re-install an older copy (within reason) and still be able to get some work done. With CC however, while the fee may seem reasonable, the simple fact is that they just keeping leaching your money away from you. It's geared to take advantage of those weak minded souls who believe they have to have the latest/greatest software the moment it comes out, but for those of us who just don't need the latest, it leaves ya hanging. In my own case, if I were to buy a new piece of software today, I may very well use that same software for MANY years to come (I'm still running XP64 and heck...I -still- play Doom II, LOL)...you just can't do that with CC unless you keep forking money over for it.

You say $10 is "nothing", however over the course of 5 years, that starts to add up to a lot of bread...and at the end of that 5 years, for the money you paid, you have nothing to show for it. Think of it like this; say you were paying $10 a month for the computer you're using. Yea, sure they keep it updated with all the latest drivers and such, but at the end of that 5 years, you've spent enough money to buy the computer. With CC however, the repo man comes to your house and takes the computer back, while you stare at your empty desk. Or how about a camera lens...let's say you spent that $600, $10 bucks a month over the course of 5 years. Sure you got some great photos with it...then at the end of that 5 years they come and take the lens back (or just disable it so it no longer focuses). Can you really say that's fair?

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective or it could simply be my sense of pragmatism as I'm getting older, but I strongly believe you should get something for your hard earned money. A lot of people will go out and spend the same money doing a 4 year lease on a vehicle as they would had they have just bought the car...personally I buy a car and drive the wheels off the silly thing until it's ready for the bone yard. Likewise, my folks had the same Western Bell phone on the wall for WELL over 20 years (with the same "provider"...Ma Bell was awesome! LOL!), yet today people seem to change "smart phones" at the drop of the hat every time the newest version of Android comes out or there's some cool app their current phone won't handle. Certainly a lot of people are quite content forking out $100 (or more) every month for their 700 channels of cable/satellite TV. I was always happy with my 5 channels of free network (and I never even upgraded to a converter when they went to digital, so now we just watch DVD's and video tapes)...never really understood the point of having to PAY for the privilege of watching my own TV. In my mind, software is a product...it's something you buy not lease or rent, particularly if it's something you use on a regular basis. I didn't rent my computer. I didn't rent the OS. I don't rent my camera or lenses. I may rent a video to see if it's something I'm gonna enjoy before I buy it, but I'm certainly not going to keep renting it over and over again...if I liked it, I just buy it so I can watch it whenever I want. So why should I spend my money to rent my software?

So yea...again I won't speak to others, however personally I have to look at all of that CC stuff as a SERIOUS rip off and long time Adobe users such as myself certainly have a right to be angry about it.

Just my own opinion.

(to the OP...sorry for jacking your thread - I simply thought a direct statement such as jsecordphoto's deserved a direct reply)

 

[jsecordphoto]

For the amount I use PS/LR (every day), $10/mo is nothing. I understand where you're coming from, but to say you end up with nothing after essentially leasing Adobe products for years...I disagree, at least for myself. On average that's 35 cents a day for something essential to my workflow. I'll spend $10/mo to make a few hundred (on average) in print sales.

They just released an article this week showing how adobe's profits have soared since switching to a subscription based service, some people will complain about greedy they are, but that also means they can pay their creative team more to develop new technology, which is better for us in the long run. While I see your point I still don't buy into it at all, and still feel like $10 is seriously nothing for what I get in return. Even over the course of say 5 years, I may spend $600 for LR/PS, but if I make that $600 in print sales over 2-3 months....I'd say I still come out ahead

 

[KenC]

Like others I just have a "gut" dislike of the subscription system. I'm using PS CS5 and am perfectly happy with it, but inevitably I will end up with a new operating system when the current computer goes and at this point I doubt it would run CS5. I've experimented with GIMP and it's pretty good, with one major drawback (at least for me), which is that it doesn't have adjustment layers, per se. You have to use a full copy of the image every time you want an adjustment. For some images I end up with only one or two, so no problem, but sometimes I have as many as 5-10, which would get really cumbersome. There is also not quite as much flexibility in painting on masks, e.g., I have not found a way to do it on the actual B&W mask image directly.

Generally, I could probably get by with Canon DPP as a raw converter and either GIMP or PS Elements for further work, but I'd hate to have an image I couldn't process satisfactorily with those options. I haven't looked at Capture One, so I'll have to check that out.

 

[idcanyon]

I use ACDSee Pro as a substitute for LR, even though I have LR though the $10 subscription, which I have for Photoshop and ACR. ACDSee Pro is more or less equivalent to LR, but avoids some of the things that really irritate me about LR.

The $10/month is about the same was upgrading to every other release in the "old days". Those who got every release must be really happy with the change. I did about every 3rd, but sometimes went every other. So its a little more expensive for me. But it is really nice for a change to not have to wait 1.5 to 3 years to get the newest features. Better or not for me, I can understand why Adobe made the change. It makes a lot of sense from their perspective. The price of admission is now much more tolerable so fewer are likely to seek out pirated copies. In the end there is no sense comparing what it was to what it is. "Is the current offer worth it?", is the only question to be asked.

 

[unpopular]

These are simply my own opinions, so PLEASE take them as such...

Again, just my own opinions.

Just my own opinion.

It is unfortunate that people feel the need to disclaim this.

Jim - I understand your desire to keep the peace, but honestly if people cannot determine on their own what is an opinion and what is a fact, that is their problem - not yours.

Speak your mind freely, and ignore all the immature squabble.

 

[gsgary]

A7 goes great with Caprure One

 

[Buckster]

I have nothing to actually contribute to the OP. If Adobe ain't for someone, so be it. There's plenty of other options out there to choose from, and others can better help with that than I.

But since it ALWAYS has to be discussed in these threads, I'll throw in my $.02 worth of smarm...

I like how people will pay out the nose every month for CATV, not even caring that if they stop paying, they'll have "nothing to show for it". Same with internet service, insurance on cars, houses, apartments, camera gear, or anything else we insure, mandated or not.

Yeah, people get to keep the newspapers and magazines they pay a subscription for, and I guess that's why people NEVER throw those old papers away - they bought 'em, they own 'em, and they're keeping them forever. Totally worth building a humidity-controlled warehouse to keep them in. That way, if push comes to shove, and they suddenly can't afford a $10 per month newspaper subscription anymore, they can always go back and re-read the same articles over and over and over in the ones they OWN. That's important.

My Jeep is paid off now, so I own it. Admittedly, a lot of good that will do me when the thing someday no longer runs and is sitting somewhere rusting away on blocks and totally useless. But I'm gonna keep it forever - because I own it. Yeah, I'll keep buying new or used ones as needed, and yeah, I'll keep paying, almost like I'm leasing or something, but the difference is that I get to keep every piece of eventually-useless junk I ever bought because "owning" is so much more important to me than whether it works for my current needs anymore or not. That's why all those old appliances that no longer work are sitting around all over the yard now between rusting hulks of what used to be working vehicles - it's all about priorities.

Food is another thing I'm tired of "leasing" every month. If I stop paying for food every month, I have nothing to show for it. That's just wrong. I should be able to buy food one time, and own it forever, and never have to pay again, right? Same with gas in the car, oil, tires, prescriptions, phone service, lights, gas, water, sewer, taxes, and everything else in my life that I have to keep paying for, over and over and over.

In fact, as I look at my monthly bills, I see that I'm basically "leasing" most of the things in my life, from the standpoint that I have to keep paying, or I don't get to use that stuff anymore. Somehow, I've managed to be okay with that. I suspect that's true for most people.

But pay Adobe monthly, the way I do practically everything else in my life???!!! Oh H3LL NO!!!! THAT would be SOOOO WRONG!!!

I've got several versions of PS that I've bought or upgraded to over the years. I've paid thousands of dollars for them, all told, and yes, I HAVE them FOREVER. If push comes to shove, I can always go back to that oldest one and do basic editing with it. Yeah, it's never ACTUALLY going to happen, but I CAN, and that's more important than the reality of the situation, which is that it REALLY doesn't matter that I CAN, since I know I never WILL go back to that first copy I bought, when I have several newer ones that I COULD go back to, which I ALSO will never install again. And if I didn't have them, I could just go to the latest version of GIMP or some other software for editing when I suddenly find that I can't afford $10 per month anymore (which means I'd have MUCH bigger problems to worry about).

And the fact that the monthly subscription actually costs me far less than buying and upgrading the way I used to do, should have no bearing on the situation. It's TOTALLY worth it to pay far more so that I can OWN it in my hard drive's dust bin and never ever use it again when I upgrade and pay AGAIN for that upgrade that I want for whatever reason. And if I'm feeling REALLY frugal, I can wait a couple of versions to upgrade, so that I have to pay the full purchase price again because they don't allow me to upgrade at the upgrade price from a version more than one or two versions old.

Yeah, it's all very sensible and logical.

 

[unpopular]

I have nothing to actually contribute to the OP. If Adobe ain't for someone, so be it. There's plenty of other options out there to choose from, and others can better help with that than I.

But since it ALWAYS has to be discussed in these threads, I'll throw in my $.02 worth of smarm...

I like how people will pay out the nose every month for CATV, not even caring that if they stop paying, they'll have "nothing to show for it". Same with internet service, insurance on cars, houses, apartments, camera gear, or anything else we insure, mandated or not.

I think this pretty much sums it up. I don't understand the mentality behind all the hate. Maybe others have their books in better order than I do, but I have much more larger expenses to cut before a measly $10/month on something I find contributive to my wellbeing!

The $40+ my family spends each month at Red Robin is probably a more effective place to start!

 

[petrochemist]

Whilst I too have an inherent dislike for the cloud model it's not so much down to the rental aspect. Though I'd prefer to make a reasonable one of payment.

My internet connection can get rather temperamental & I might want to process on the laptop while on holiday with no web access so I'd rather be able be confident of having the software on my PC whatever happens to my link to the internet.

I'd also rather decide for myself if & when to upgrade software. All too often I've had software 'upgrades' that give me nothing new, while changing the layout so I have to relearn the software's idiosyncrasies.

 

[Buckster]

Whilst I too have an inherent dislike for the cloud model it's not so much down to the rental aspect. Though I'd prefer to make a reasonable one of payment.

My internet connection can get rather temperamental & I might want to process on the laptop while on holiday with no web access so I'd rather be able be confident of having the software on my PC whatever happens to my link to the internet.

I'd also rather decide for myself if & when to upgrade software. All too often I've had software 'upgrades' that give me nothing new, while changing the layout so I have to relearn the software's idiosyncrasies.

One need not be online to edit and process with CC. The software for CC is on the computer.

 

[pixmedic]

Im probably not a great source of information for non-adobe products since I drank the adobe kool-aid and subscribed to the LR/PS CC service (which I am immensely pleased with BTW, especially considering what I get for $10 a month compared to the piddly channels I get with basic cable for more money)

aaaaanyway...
its been a while, but the last time I used not-photoshop was a few years ago when I tried paintshop pro. I dont remember which one, but i DO remember it did do a pretty good job so you might take a looksie into whatever the newest version is. (X8?)
Usually PSPro is under the $100 mark for their latest and greatest model. if its comparable to adobe PS and is compatible with your camera, it might be a good option.

ive never used capture one, but I usually hear good things about it. (I also think its more expensive than paintshop pro)
i dont know how it compares to photoshop or PSPro.

you could also look into GIMP and see if its good with your A7's raw files.

other than that, im out of ideas.
theres always people around looking for photoshop and/or lightroom alternatives so if you do find one you are happy with please start a thread for it and give us a review.