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unpopular

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Whilst I too have an inherent dislike for the cloud model it's not so much down to the rental aspect. Though I'd prefer to make a reasonable one of payment.

My internet connection can get rather temperamental & I might want to process on the laptop while on holiday with no web access so I'd rather be able be confident of having the software on my PC whatever happens to my link to the internet.

I'd also rather decide for myself if & when to upgrade software. All too often I've had software 'upgrades' that give me nothing new, while changing the layout so I have to relearn the software's idiosyncrasies.
One need not be online to edit and process with CC. The software for CC is on the computer.

As for the cloud services themselves, they do work really nicely, and I have stopped carrying around hard drives to and from school. I wish that they gave us a bit more space than the measly 25gb (I asked for more, and oddly, they gave me more, but still only around 80gb). 1TB of cloud storage would be awesome.

But, it's really nice to have all my fonts, patterns, color schemes and assets wherever I go - automatically synced and available on my desktop. I know that for many of you this isn't a big deal necessarily, but for me it's a HUGE help.
 

jbylake

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I have nothing to actually contribute to the OP. If Adobe ain't for someone, so be it. There's plenty of other options out there to choose from, and others can better help with that than I.

But since it ALWAYS has to be discussed in these threads, I'll throw in my $.02 worth of smarm...

I like how people will pay out the nose every month for CATV, not even caring that if they stop paying, they'll have "nothing to show for it". Same with internet service, insurance on cars, houses, apartments, camera gear, or anything else we insure, mandated or not.

Yeah, people get to keep the newspapers and magazines they pay a subscription for, and I guess that's why people NEVER throw those old papers away - they bought 'em, they own 'em, and they're keeping them forever. Totally worth building a humidity-controlled warehouse to keep them in. That way, if push comes to shove, and they suddenly can't afford a $10 per month newspaper subscription anymore, they can always go back and re-read the same articles over and over and over in the ones they OWN. That's important.......But pay Adobe monthly, the way I do practically everything else in my life???!!! Oh H3LL NO!!!! THAT would be SOOOO WRONG!!!....yeah, it's all very sensible and logical.

Wow Buckster, that was mean. I need a "safe space" where the perpetually "offended" can go suffer PTSD after reading that post that I might find offensive....:05.18-flustered:

Obviously, I jest. I've heard this debate back and forth so many times it gives me a headache, but I think the straight forward way you've approached this matter, line by line, is one of the best posts I've ever read on this subject. I would recommend that beginner or expert go back and read your entire OP that I've quoted above. Your ideas certainly won't appeal to everyone, but what ever does? It will give folks a pretty grounded idea of one viewpoint to consider for people that the whole debate is an issue for, and should be mandatory reading for new folks for who the whole dizzying array of PP software can find overwhelming. Great, to the point, informative post.

J.
 

Jim Walczak

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But since it ALWAYS has to be discussed in these threads, I'll throw in my $.02 worth of smarm...

I like how people will pay out the nose every month for CATV, not even caring that if they stop paying, they'll have "nothing to show for it". Same with internet service, insurance on cars, houses, apartments, camera gear, or anything else we insure, mandated or not.

Yeah, people get to keep the newspapers and magazines they pay a subscription for, and I guess that's why people NEVER throw those old papers away - they bought 'em, they own 'em, and they're keeping them forever. Totally worth building a humidity-controlled warehouse to keep them in. That way, if push comes to shove, and they suddenly can't afford a $10 per month newspaper subscription anymore, they can always go back and re-read the same articles over and over and over in the ones they OWN. That's important.

My Jeep is paid off now, so I own it. Admittedly, a lot of good that will do me when the thing someday no longer runs and is sitting somewhere rusting away on blocks and totally useless. But I'm gonna keep it forever - because I own it. Yeah, I'll keep buying new or used ones as needed, and yeah, I'll keep paying, almost like I'm leasing or something, but the difference is that I get to keep every piece of eventually-useless junk I ever bought because "owning" is so much more important to me than whether it works for my current needs anymore or not. That's why all those old appliances that no longer work are sitting around all over the yard now between rusting hulks of what used to be working vehicles - it's all about priorities.

Food is another thing I'm tired of "leasing" every month. If I stop paying for food every month, I have nothing to show for it. That's just wrong. I should be able to buy food one time, and own it forever, and never have to pay again, right? Same with gas in the car, oil, tires, prescriptions, phone service, lights, gas, water, sewer, taxes, and everything else in my life that I have to keep paying for, over and over and over.

In fact, as I look at my monthly bills, I see that I'm basically "leasing" most of the things in my life, from the standpoint that I have to keep paying, or I don't get to use that stuff anymore. Somehow, I've managed to be okay with that. I suspect that's true for most people.

But pay Adobe monthly, the way I do practically everything else in my life???!!! Oh H3LL NO!!!! THAT would be SOOOO WRONG!!!

I've got several versions of PS that I've bought or upgraded to over the years. I've paid thousands of dollars for them, all told, and yes, I HAVE them FOREVER. If push comes to shove, I can always go back to that oldest one and do basic editing with it. Yeah, it's never ACTUALLY going to happen, but I CAN, and that's more important than the reality of the situation, which is that it REALLY doesn't matter that I CAN, since I know I never WILL go back to that first copy I bought, when I have several newer ones that I COULD go back to, which I ALSO will never install again. And if I didn't have them, I could just go to the latest version of GIMP or some other software for editing when I suddenly find that I can't afford $10 per month anymore (which means I'd have MUCH bigger problems to worry about).

And the fact that the monthly subscription actually costs me far less than buying and upgrading the way I used to do, should have no bearing on the situation. It's TOTALLY worth it to pay far more so that I can OWN it in my hard drive's dust bin and never ever use it again when I upgrade and pay AGAIN for that upgrade that I want for whatever reason. And if I'm feeling REALLY frugal, I can wait a couple of versions to upgrade, so that I have to pay the full purchase price again because they don't allow me to upgrade at the upgrade price from a version more than one or two versions old.

Yeah, it's all very sensible and logical.

First and foremost, I think you have tried to take this to some sense of the extreme...and based on your comments it looks like it's more or less a response to my own (at least in part). Your example of keeping a car "forever"...wow...just wow. Yea...sure, we recently junked my wife's Grand Am as it had nearly 300,000 miles on it, was coming apart at the seems and was beyond my ability to repair. In -my- view however, we got out money's worth. Likewise, my old Plymouth minivan is ready to be hauled off...I bought it for $700 and drove it for a solid 5 years, so again I got my money's worth. Your comments seem to suggest this is wrong?

More to the point, your comparison of Cable TV is flawed...with CATV, you're paying for a service...not a specific product (and again, I won't pay for that either). Same goes for things like "insurance" on things like your house, car, camera gear, etc...you're paying for a protection service. Likewise with your comment about "food"...sorry dude, but there IS a BIG difference between consumables and software.

In other words, some of your comments are rather irrational and it seems clear that you're trying to be deliberately inflammatory. Jsecordphoto said "I really don't understand..." and I simply provided my own view on this as to why some people would have an issue with CC (and clearly I'm not the ONLY person who has such issues). Somehow you seem deeply offended that someone would have opinions and priorities that differ from your own, but then you take comments out of context as a way to justify your own opinions...ya really want to invoke logic there?

Like jsecordphoto, you are welcome to your opinions...as I and others should be to ours, however despite your rebuttal, you've said nothing that changes my mind on this topic at all. If you choose to support corporate profit mongering and deliberate wastefulness...hey...it's your money...but try not to be so offended just because others out here have a very different view.
 

Jim Walczak

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These are simply my own opinions, so PLEASE take them as such...

Again, just my own opinions.

Just my own opinion.

It is unfortunate that people feel the need to disclaim this.

Jim - I understand your desire to keep the peace, but honestly if people cannot determine on their own what is an opinion and what is a fact, that is their problem - not yours.

Speak your mind freely, and ignore all the immature squabble.

On the one hand, you're correct...I should not have to quantify or rationalize my own opinions or views, particularly on something like an internet forum. At the end of the day I do know that my opinions are no more or less valid than anyone else's. On the other hand - see Buckster's somewhat inflammatory comment which appears to be am indirect response to my own.

You see my point.

For better or worse, whether it's here on a photography forum or over on a couple of guitar forums where I occasionally hang out, I do often tend to be the "odd man out" as it were, so yea...it's unfortunate, however I do usually feel the need to provide such clarification.
 

JoeW

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Going back to the OP, who mentioned that he had a Mac...I suggest you take a look at Affinity Photo. It's created for Mac, is intended to be a real alternative to PS. No monthly fee, only $49 USD. It doesn't have some of the LR options in terms of managing photos or reviewing an entire shoot. But for editing, I've been impressed with it so far (I have just gotten started with it after having read a number of glowing reviews).
 

unpopular

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I still stand by Photoline32. It's not super user friendly, but it is extremely powerful and does many technical things photoshit (oops, typo) can't.
 

Buckster

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I simply provided my own view on this as to why some people would have an issue with CC
And, likewise, I simply provided my own view on this after reading your "justifications" for your view on it.

Somehow you seem deeply offended that someone would have opinions and priorities that differ from your own
No, you're reading something into my response that isn't there. Read the very first paragraph of my original response to see my REAL emotional state of mind. It's not "offended". Here's a clue: I don't care what you or anyone else chooses to use, nor why.

The only reason I responded at all was because, frankly, I find your "reasoning" to be pretty lame, all reality-based monthly expenses-type things considered, regardless of which little boxes you decide to put them in as justification for why you're willing to pay repeatedly for this, but not for that. I thought I'd just share that with the group, as you did, in case anyone would like to see the other side of your particular coin. That okay with you?

As earlier noted, it shouldn't be necessary to say that this is my own personal point of view, but just in case there's any confusion about that, it's just my own personal point of view which, as you rightly point out, we are all entitled to. Everyone, and I mean everyone, can take it or leave it, identify with it or not, agree with it or disagree with it. It makes zero difference to me.

Like jsecordphoto, you are welcome to your opinions...as I and others should be to ours
Where did I say you're not welcome to your opinion? What's your problem with me sharing my opinion? Am I not entitled to the same thing? One-way-street much there, fella?

you've said nothing that changes my mind on this topic at all.
Good thing I'm not trying to change your mind on this topic (or any other) at all. Re-read my very first paragraph in this thread to get my actual views on that. Here's another clue: I don't care what you or anyone else uses, nor what their or your reasons, excuses or justifications for it are.

If you choose to support corporate profit mongering and deliberate wastefulness...hey...it's your money...
LOL! Oh PLEASE!!! LOL! Just stop with the "Evil Empire" crap, before you make me wet myself from laughing too hard!

but try not to be so offended just because others out here have a very different view.
Again, not offended in any way, but since you keep saying it, I think you should look into the psychological term called "projecting", then do your best to try to get over it.
 

jcdeboever

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You could try out darktable | the photo workflow software
I only tried it in the very early version, so not sure how it is now ... or if your A7 is supported ... and I don't think it is supported for Windows.

Darktable is MAC/Linux only and not available for Windows. It is however an excellent raw converter -- very capable and superb results.

Joe

P.S. It's free.
I agree. It's a wonderful program. Very stable to boot.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

The_Traveler

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I'm going to suggest that the admins of this site implement a new statistic to be displayed underneath their avatar.
That would be the ratio of numbers of words written to actual images posted for critique in the last year.
The problem I see would be dividing by zero, although an error message 'BS' could just pop up.
 

Buckster

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I'm going to suggest that the admins of this site implement a new statistic to be displayed underneath their avatar.
That would be the ratio of numbers of words written to actual images posted for critique in the last year.
The problem I see would be dividing by zero, although an error message 'BS' could just pop up.
What does that have to do with the subject of this thread in particular, or any of the posters or messages in it, or anything else at all, for that matter?

Please explain in detail, so that we can really get going with the kinds of responses that you're obviously trolling for - again. Either grow a pair and just come out with it, or stop trolling with those sorts of posts.
 

astroNikon

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Scatterbrained

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LR is available for purchase here, just go to the Very Bottom Right (yes, the VERY BOTTOM RIGHT side of the page) ==> Digital photography software | Download free Adobe Photoshop Lightroom CC trial

I also do not like the CC renting thing.
I've owned LR v4 for years without issue but will be upgrading soon as my newest camera isn't supported by LR v4.
^ Just buy Lr6. I'm personally surprised that someone is still using Lr2 as it doesn't support any of the past say.....three generations of cameras. Beyond that however, Lr6 is still available for purchase as Adobe has said that Lr would remain available as standalone software.


As far as the cloud goes. I personally haven't bought into it. It didn't make sense to me then and it still doesn't now. I'll likely run CS6 and Lr6 for at least another 2, maybe 4 years. By which time I will have saved between $240 and $480 over CC, assuming they don't raise the price of CC in the meantime. I recently purchased two new cameras that are both supported so it will be awhile before I need something new.
 

astroNikon

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I recall in the investor notes how Adobe (and other companies like Microsoft, etc) were trying to figure out a method of improving revenue stream by making it steady. If a company does not come out with products EVERY year they are then bound by product cycle revenue. And it costs a lot to create new product each and every year.

In the case of Microsoft and Adobe it was based on new product, which may take a couple years for new stuff. So that was stifling investor returns. The "renting" model provides a steady revenue stream, which with the low entry price actually improves profit as there are less barriers for people to sign up.

In renting/leasing models it allows lower entry costs but costs more over time as the term increases if one also doesn't jump on the new "car, software, etc" model every few years or so. If one like to "consume / use" a product for longer buying it outright saves a ton of money.

but to each their own
 

The_Traveler

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I'm going to suggest that the admins of this site implement a new statistic to be displayed underneath their avatar.
That would be the ratio of numbers of words written to actual images posted for critique in the last year.
The problem I see would be dividing by zero, although an error message 'BS' could just pop up.
What does that have to do with the subject of this thread in particular, or any of the posters or messages in it, or anything else at all, for that matter?

Please explain in detail, so that we can really get going with the kinds of responses that you're obviously trolling for - again. Either grow a pair and just come out with it, or stop trolling with those sorts of posts.

What this site has a lot of is bullcrap opinions. Four pages and 43 posts because some doesn't want to spend $10 a month on tools that make his art or his hobby more fun and probably better.
Why?
People who are happy to bloviate at length on any damn thing in order to show how knowledgeable they are.
We have members who seem to specialize in words without pictures, in knowledge clipped from the Internet.
I look back at people's list of threads they've started, no pictures.
Lots of comments, lots of bull, lots of telling people what is the real way to do things, but no pictures.
With some few exceptions, there is no-one here whose work I admire or from whom I get inspiration.

So what is there either to attract new mid-level people or to serve as an example or an inspiration?

I've been a member here for a long time and the situation only gets worse.
There is no way to count this but I'm pretty certain that done more c/c, edited more of other people's images and posted more of my own than anyone active now and it's damn hard to think of any reason why I should keep that up.
 

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