Head-up display (And how to fixate stuff with 1/10 mm precision)

[HUDguy]

I'm confused as to what is you are trying to create and why?
It seems you want to record a row of LED lights that will be appearing as a hud over the main captured image to display the millisecond that a camera shot was taken right?

Right!

Why not then just use a wider angle or move back a pace and include the LED display in the photo itself - that way recording which lights were on (thus telling you the millisecond time you want) on the photo itself

Because I want to record the LEDs anywhere when I take a photo in any direction. That's why I want the LEDs close to the lens. I don't want to arrange every picture so that the motive conveniently contains a large display 10 meters in front of the camera

LCDs btw, seem to be too slow. When I take pictures of a LCD stop watch, the 1/100 second figure is always an 8 (all crystals lit, probably because afterglow is longer than exposure time). LED:s, on the other hand, switch from on to off in about 10 microseconds.

 

[Overread19]

Surely this type of setup is designed for some very specific purpose beyond the internal clock in the camera? If so and no for general shooting surely you'll have time or at least pre-planning to setup a station in advance with the custom timer clock (as well as factor in any delay in timing between the pressing of the shutter and the cameras own internal lag)

 

[penfolderoldo]

I'll just ignore the idiots Big Mike and Derrel, whose mashed brains spilled out on their keyboards. I don't understand why this large forum has no moderation at all, to prevent idiots from spamming it with OT and personal attacks.

spacefuzz:
Firstly, a laptop would be way to large, I need a truly mobile and agile device. Secondly, even if I stream sensor data to a laptop, then I need to know the exact point in time when the picture was taken. I don't have a camera which tells me that with single millisecond precision. Nor does it stream images to a laptop with millisecond precision. I would only know when the image reaches the laptop, not when it was taken. The lag between is not subject to real time programming, but is a secret of the camera/OS.

Bitter Jeweler:
Out of focus and distortions due to the angle will not be a problem, because I want the HUD to display only a row of LEDs. They will binary code the sensor data. It will be easy to see which ones are lit, even if they are fuzzy blobs. I hope that the HUD will display nothing but the LEDs, by masking them and keeping the HUD-reflected area dark.

penfolderoldo:
I suppose that demand isn't big enough for this to become an off-the-shelf product. And in five-ten years the connectivity and real time capability of cameras will likely be good enough even for this need I have now.[/QUOTE

Harsh to say the least - neither Mike nor Derrel were attacking you in any way. There is moderation on this site, and i've always found it pretty effective. Just because you don't like the answers you get is no reason to throw your toys out of the pram - you asked what we thought, we told you - it's of course up to you whether you listen to our opinions or not!

 

[penfolderoldo]

And another thing - if you need to record the 'exact millisecond' the pictures taken you won't be able to, as even at 10 fps each shot will cover multiple milliseconds.

 

[480sparky44 44]

There are also several manufacturers who produce small screens dedicated for looking at 'live view' images directly from the camera.

I don't quite understand. Do you mean that I should take images of the live view of another camera? With a little screen on which I can overlay data? I'd be interested in a link to such a device.

It's a small LCD screen you wire to the camera so you can see the LiveView image on it instead of the camera screen. I can't find the ad for it right now, but I've seen them in magazines.

 

[spacefuzz]

HUDguy I think you really need to tell us the why behind what you are trying to do. I have used several camera setups in precision / lab conditions so may be able to come up with a more efficient solution.

If you want a great high speed HUD tracking system look at what NASA did ( RIP space shuttle ) for their high speed launch pad videos.

Also if you want very precise alignment on your setup....do you have a granite slab layout bench? calibrated height stands? glass scales? Alighnment at small scales gets very twitchy very fast.

 

[Big Mike]

It's a small LCD screen you wire to the camera so you can see the LiveView image on it instead of the camera screen. I can't find the ad for it right now, but I've seen them in magazines.

Buy discount Self-portraits viewfinder just at Linkdelight.com

 

[Derrel]

Good luck with your invention HUDguy!!! I would definitely talk to Canon, or Pentax, or Panasonic about your idea. You know, one of the big P&S camera manufacturers and designers. Of course, you will already have the US and foreign patent rights all sewn up, and all your T's crossed and i's dotted. I would love to hear that you've had meetings with one of any of the big Japanese camera makers, and would love to hear that one of them has decided to take your idea and to pour a hundred million yen into making it a reality. When that happens, I will be the first in line to congratulate you. In the meantime, OT idiots like Big Mike and myself,and others, will likely continue to express friendly doubt at ideas such as yours. I'm hopeful that the camera companies are dying to meet you, and to have access to your research and development materials and your engineering prowess. I think it would be good to be able to communicate the exact "need" for your invention before taking meetings with actual camera design engineers, since they will ask about pesky details such as user benefits and such; your "need" for a camera that can tell you the EXACT millisecond a photo was taken seems a bit odd, since a typical exposure is going to cover a span of "quite a few milliseconds' worth of time" [notice the quotes around that phrase?], and so your reasoning, your stated rationale, seems rather pointless to me, but hey, whatever. It's always good to know "when" a picture was made!! I agree with that. [I write the year on the back of my pics,in pencil.]

This off-topic, spamming idiot wishes you the best of luck with both the US Patent Office, and with the Japanese camera industry engineers. Welcome to TPF!

 

[Destin]

What kind of shooting will you be using this for?

I agree with others, the led's wouldn't even be visible, AT ALL. they are so small and close to the lens that they would become invisible, IMO.

Are you aware that every digital camera records exif data that can tell you the exact second the photo was taken? Just sync your cameras clock with one you trust, and you'll be all set.

You can view this info in a free program called Opanda

 

[HUDguy]

And another thing - if you need to record the 'exact millisecond' the pictures taken you won't be able to, as even at 10 fps each shot will cover multiple milliseconds.

I've taken pictures of a millisecond "watch" made out of LED counter with a CMOS rolling shutter without that problem. The millisecond LED sometimes appear brighter or dimmer, but even that could be interpolated.

 

[HUDguy]

What kind of shooting will you be using this for?

I don't want to go there, in this very hostile forum. People here love to live in ignorance of new applications of photography. Let's not overload their tiny brains! Ignorance is a bliss, at least for the stupid...

I agree with others, the led's wouldn't even be visible, AT ALL. they are so small and close to the lens that they would become invisible, IMO.

I do not understand that criticism. If I hold a piece of glass at about 45 degrees angle to, and tightly in front of, the lens of even my cheap little phonecam, I can indeed see which LEDs a couple of inches below are lit, and which are not lit.

Are you aware that every digital camera records exif data that can tell you the exact second the photo was taken? Just sync your cameras clock with one you trust, and you'll be all set.

You can view this info in a free program called Opanda

I will take a close look at this, thank you!
As of now, I wonder about the time precision in OS and data transfers, but we'll see.

 

[HUDguy]

Buy discount Self-portraits viewfinder just at Linkdelight.com

I'll have a look at the timing precision and communicability of those items. Thanks!

 

[HUDguy]

[Bull**** about how difficult it is to put a small piece of glass at an angle in front of a lens in order to create a transparent split image]

It's not difficult at all. I just want to put a small piece of glass at an angle in front of a lens in order to create a transparent split image.

Maybe "Head up display" makes people think about something made for fighter pilots? Maybe that is what people find so very provocative here? Well, even that has been around since the 1940s. Doesn't require any patent. It's just a piece of glass at an angle in front of a lens...

 

[Overread19]

Just a point but all of the super fast setups I've seen with a DSLR for ultra fast photography (bullets, flying insects etc... - ie things where millisecond exposures are needed) all involved custom external shutters rather than the shutter in the camera itself (that being typically set to either a slowish speed or even bulb mode and letting the external shutter control the light into the camera - often in combination with highspeed flash setups.

 

[HUDguy]

Could be. My simple test shot only identified lights on or off in a non-environment. To capture a real motive too, might require a lot more light and therefor alot more exposure time. Of course the timing of a visual indicator can't beat shutter time. Or well, it could. A five second exposure of a continuous analogue clock would reveal start- and stop times in the shape of the angles which the second pointer paints on the cloxk-face.

Or, if exposure time is 10 ms, having 10 LED binary counter wise being lit each every fraction of 10 ms, one could possibly find out the time they indicate, with a fraction of exposure time precision, by evaluating their brightness in the picture.

Maybe one needs to use two cameras with different settings. One that gets off on the flash of the other.