I need some advice from some pros

[Snap228]

I don't post much on here, but I need some help. So, I'm a bit of a new photographer, looking to build my portfolio. I've done a lot of portraits and such previously, but I'm trying to try new things. Because of this, every now and then I put an ad up on Craigslist offering a deal of $200 for pretty much unlimited photography, with edited and RAW images delivered to their house included.

As I put up one such ad last night, this morning I got a reply to shoot a wedding:

I saw your craiglist ad. I’m willing to pay you $500 instead of $200 for the package in your ad which includes

· six hours of actual photography,

· editing of the superior shots

· a CD with ALL of the photos on it, edited and unedited



But I’d like all photos to be edited this way Ruffled® | Picture 16205 « Tulsa Barnyard Wedding and raw pictures will be delivered on one week via wetransfer.com or 4shared.com.

You mentioned that you are a photography student, how long did you study photography and what type of camera do you use? Also can you send me a sample of a picture in the treatment requested?

So I'd like a little advice before I respond. I have no problem imitating the editing shown (although it might take some research...I'm not used to looking at an image and imitating its editing)...but for those of you that do weddings, do you normally edit ALL of your shots? I imagine I'll take over 1000 photos that day, and I'd probably pick the best of those, and she'd end up with 500-600. Does this sound about right? Secondly, how long is the turn around time for you guys? I think expecting all of the images in the way expected isn't very fair (especially considering I have a day job).

So I'd like some advice...are these stipulations a little unreasonable, or is it just me? Any help is appreciated.

 

[480sparky]

You're going to shoot a wedding for $500 and then hand over all the original RAW files?

That's dumb. No offense, but it's really not a good idea to hand over all your future sales with no chance of compensation.

 

[Snap228]

You're going to shoot a wedding for $500 and then hand over all the original RAW files?

That's dumb. No offense, but it's really not a good idea to hand over all your future sales with no chance of compensation.

Well my thinking was that I probably won't have many future sales because I'm relatively new to the game and right now just want to build my portfolio. Currently I don't have the capacity to sell prints, etc. That being said, I do usually convert them to JPEGS (for obvious reasons), I don't know if that counts for anything.

 

[480sparky]

And why are you unable to sell any prints? Is it because you're just that bad of a photographer, or your sales skills are totally lacking?

 

[Snap228]

And why are you unable to sell any prints? Is it because you're just that bad of a photographer, or your sales skills are totally lacking?

And now I remember why I don't use this forum.

Listen, I appreciate your input on my business tactics, but, to be honest, it's unwarranted and unwanted. I don't need to justify myself here, and that wasn't the question I asked. I appreciate you offering your (clearly) invaluable opinion, but it's unnecessary.

 

[mwcfarms]

Ok maybe the capacity to sell prints isn't there yet but can you sell YOURSELF. I think thats what sparky meant. Trying to get an idea on why you think you can't sell prints. I hadn't been doing photography very long either and I still sold one of my first prints two months in, Connections and good marketing skills on my part. Well I'd try to sell ice to eskimos if they lived around here. Probably would sell a bit too.

I would never hand over the RAW files. Most laypeople don't even understand what an actual Raw file is. Perhaps she means she just wants all the negatives. And the number of shots you deliver shouldn't be set to a number because then you have to deliver that number and if you say 500 and only get 250 usable shots your in trouble. You can explain all of this too her. Yes I think one week is too short. I would say three with a full time job if you have great editting skills already.

I mean its up too you what your comfortable with. If you think its worth the experience to hand all of that over etc then fine. But remember once you do something for someone, your going to have all of these other people asking you why can't you do it for them. Its easier to set your standards now and stick to them. Might not be the fastest way to get portfolio shots but that's up to you. I wouldn't.

 

[mwcfarms]

The other thing I don't like is being locked into an edittng style. I think that's bull****. If they want that style of photography tell them to contact that person. You should have your own style and if you want to include a few like that fine. It's insulting to ask that really.

 

[480sparky]

And why are you unable to sell any prints? Is it because you're just that bad of a photographer, or your sales skills are totally lacking?

And now I remember why I don't use this forum.

Listen, I appreciate your input on my business tactics, but, to be honest, it's unwarranted and unwanted. I don't need to justify myself here, and that wasn't the question I asked. I appreciate you offering your (clearly) invaluable opinion, but it's unnecessary.

I'm not trying to slam you or poke fun at you. I'm simply trying to understand why you don't think you can sell any prints. If it because you're not a good enough photographer, then your business will fail. If it's because your sales skills are lacking, your business will fail. If it's because you lack confidence in yourself, how do you expect your customers to have confidence in you? Are you unable to post-process images?

I am not saying you are a bad photographer with no sales skills, who lacks self-confidence and can't edit an image to save your life. I'm simply pointing out the need for you to identify what skills you need to improve on and act accordingly to those areas.

But hey, if my responses are not of any value to you, then you certainly got what you paid for. Ignore me if you like, makes no difference to me whether you succeed or not.

 

[Snap228]

Thanks for all the help, guys. I agree with pretty much everyone here.

In answer to your question, mwcfarms, the reason I don't currently sell prints is because I haven't had the time to invest into the process, i.e. finding a decent processing website, setting up a store, etc, especially because I currently have a day job that requires a LOT of my time (I'm actually in sales, so I don't think that's the problem ). Although if anyone has any suggestions pertaining to this, it would be appreciated.

I am definitely NOT agreeing to provide the photos in a week, nor to have them available on 4shared. I appreciate your input on the package I'm offering, and I'll take that into consideration going forward.

And in reference to what you said, pancro, she DEFINITELY seems like the type to have "suggestions" on my work all the way through.

I think I'm going to reply that she gets my style, in my time frame, or not at all.

 

[Snap228]

And why are you unable to sell any prints? Is it because you're just that bad of a photographer, or your sales skills are totally lacking?

And now I remember why I don't use this forum.

Listen, I appreciate your input on my business tactics, but, to be honest, it's unwarranted and unwanted. I don't need to justify myself here, and that wasn't the question I asked. I appreciate you offering your (clearly) invaluable opinion, but it's unnecessary.

I'm not trying to slam you or poke fun at you. I'm simply trying to understand why you don't think you can sell any prints. If it because you're not a good enough photographer, then your business will fail. If it's because your sales skills are lacking, your business will fail. If it's because you lack confidence in yourself, how do you expect your customers to have confidence in you? Are you unable to post-process images?

I am not saying you are a bad photographer with no sales skills, who lacks self-confidence and can't edit an image to save your life. I'm simply pointing out the need for you to identify what skills you need to improve on and act accordingly to those areas.

But hey, if my responses are not of any value to you, then you certainly got what you paid for. Ignore me if you like, makes no difference to me whether you succeed or not.

I understand your viewpoint, and in all honesty, I'm here to learn, like everyone else. I just don't take kindly to being insulted or assumptions thrown at me with no foundation. As I just explained, I haven't had the time to invest in the market of selling prints, but I'd like to do so soon. If I could set up an online store to sell prints today, I would.

 

[480sparky]

I understand your viewpoint, and in all honesty, I'm here to learn, like everyone else. I just don't take kindly to being insulted or assumptions thrown at me with no foundation.................

If you feel I insulted you, then I apologize. I was just trying to get you to analyze why you don't think you can sell prints. And guess what........ you came up with an answer!

........... As I just explained, I haven't had the time to invest in the market of selling prints, but I'd like to do so soon............... .

The problem with forums in the written form is there's no facial expressions, body language and inflection for you to take into account.

 

[Tinstafl]

Wow, way to low a price. I shot a church directory and that was 145 shot finished and about 300 or so shot. Took two weeks to edit and upload. Weddings are more work. Look at Smugmug. You can upload to bay photo and they will color correct for you and the whole family can buy from there. They can even download a jpg o post on FB. You can be set up in an hour on a basic site and get paid too. Charge a fee and let them buy watermarked images from you. Since you are new and want to give them a break increase the basic costs by 20 to 40 %. Works well.

 

[mwcfarms]

Finding someone to print is easy. MPIX, adorama, etc etc. Finding someone to sell them is another story for sure. I actually joined a local artists association. We have a small gallery that we run in Drumheller and we show our work there in exchange for a small commission to go the gallery we have a space to show and sell our work. See if there is something like that around there. I started out years ago interested in landscape/nature photography and now find that people are more profitable so have been in the same boat as you for the last year. Building portfolio. It takes time but I wouldn't sell your standards for the experience. Good luck either way.

 

[Snap228]

Thanks for all the advice, guys. I've looked at smugmug before and had it recommended to me, so maybe I'll check it out.

In the end, I replied with the fact that editing takes a lot of time and it would take me at least 3-4 weeks to get the photos done, and it would be delivered by CD, not public sharing site.

I also said I could put a vintage filter on the photos, but my photos are my photos, and if she didn't like my style, she shouldn't hire me (I said it nicer than that, of course).

So, yeah, we'll see if she's still interested. But if not, I would wish her luck finding someone else to do a shoot like that for the price, especially in NYC.