Lightroom, in-camera processing question

[Austin Greene]

Hey folks,

Over the past few years shooting I've noticed something, but never really thought much of it. I always shoot in RAW, so I wouldn't expect my images to have any processing on them when I import them into Lightroom. Sure enough, however, every time I import an image it seems to discard any color profiles that the camera has assigned, and the image goes from what I saw on the LCD, to a somewhat desaturated, less contrasty version. It doesn't both me, but I'm more curious about what's happening here. If I'm shooting in RAW anyways, why would the camera bother applying any in-camera processing since the file would have to be passed through an import software anyways. Or perhaps it's just Lightroom that does this and other programs maintain those color-profiles assigned to the RAW file in-camera?

Curious, and thought I'd ask

Austin

 

[wyogirl]

You shoot RAW but your camera has to show you JPEG when you look at the LCD. Its processing it how it sees fit. RAW has no processing so you will have to process it.

 

[SpikeyJohnson]

As Wyogirl stated, the camera will take the raw photo and store it. In order to show you the photo though, it will process each photo before showing you and show you a jpeg of what it would have done with the photo. So when you pull into lightroom it will always look duller than the "camera's photo". I think of it as a way to see what a photo could look like after I post process it.

 

[Scatterbrained]

To elaborate, the only raw processor that can read the in camera picture style data is Canon's own DPP. If you're only shooting raw and you're shooting in natural light often, one thing you can do to help is set a neutral picture style then turn down saturation, contrast, and to a lesser degree sharpening. This will give you a more accurate representation of the histogram when you're shooting as well as give you the opposite effect of seeing your images pop when rendered in Lr, rather than go flat.

 

[Austin Greene]

As Wyogirl stated, the camera will take the raw photo and store it. In order to show you the photo though, it will process each photo before showing you and show you a jpeg of what it would have done with the photo. So when you pull into lightroom it will always look duller than the "camera's photo". I think of it as a way to see what a photo could look like after I post process it.

I suppose what I was referencing more was why these processed images are shown at all upon import to Lightroom. That would imply the processing is somehow linked to the RAW file after it has left the SD card, which seems entirely pointless given the file format.

 

[SpikeyJohnson]

As Wyogirl stated, the camera will take the raw photo and store it. In order to show you the photo though, it will process each photo before showing you and show you a jpeg of what it would have done with the photo. So when you pull into lightroom it will always look duller than the "camera's photo". I think of it as a way to see what a photo could look like after I post process it.

I suppose what I was referencing more was why these processed images are shown at all upon import to Lightroom. That would imply the processing is somehow linked to the RAW file after it has left the SD card, which seems entirely pointless given the file format.

Oh, well that might be a totally different thing. Sometimes Lightroom has preset settings that automatically apply to images that are imported. I can't remember off the top of my head where the settings are located but I'm sure if you search either here on TPF or google on "how to zero out preset lightroom settings" it should bring up how to do that. If that isn't the issue, the camera may be tying the settings that it likes for a photo in what is a XMP file. Each XMP goes to a certain image and manipulates the data a little. If you see any XMP files next to the photo's before you have edited them you can delete that to get the straight data.

 

[Scatterbrained]

As Wyogirl stated, the camera will take the raw photo and store it. In order to show you the photo though, it will process each photo before showing you and show you a jpeg of what it would have done with the photo. So when you pull into lightroom it will always look duller than the "camera's photo". I think of it as a way to see what a photo could look like after I post process it.

I suppose what I was referencing more was why these processed images are shown at all upon import to Lightroom. That would imply the processing is somehow linked to the RAW file after it has left the SD card, which seems entirely pointless given the file format.

The camera embeds a jpeg tumbnail into the image. That's what you see on the back of your screen and it's what is initially shown when the images are imported. Lr deletes that jpeg and replaces it with it's own jpeg after it has had a chance to render it.

 

[SpikeyJohnson]

Here is a link to Adobe's article on preset thumbnails and the way to have it show raw. Adobe Community: Why does the color and or tone of my image change after import?

 

[Scatterbrained]

As Wyogirl stated, the camera will take the raw photo and store it. In order to show you the photo though, it will process each photo before showing you and show you a jpeg of what it would have done with the photo. So when you pull into lightroom it will always look duller than the "camera's photo". I think of it as a way to see what a photo could look like after I post process it.

I suppose what I was referencing more was why these processed images are shown at all upon import to Lightroom. That would imply the processing is somehow linked to the RAW file after it has left the SD card, which seems entirely pointless given the file format.

Oh, well that might be a totally different thing. Sometimes Lightroom has preset settings that automatically apply to images that are imported. I can't remember off the top of my head where the settings are located but I'm sure if you search either here on TPF or google on "how to zero out preset lightroom settings" it should bring up how to do that. If that isn't the issue, the camera may be tying the settings that it likes for a photo in what is a XMP file. Each XMP goes to a certain image and manipulates the data a little. If you see any XMP files next to the photo's before you have edited them you can delete that to get the straight data.

XMP sidecar files aren't written by the camera. The camera writes all information straight into the raw files metadata. An XMP file is a "recipe" file created by Adobe to tell ACR/Lr how to render the image based on any changes you've made. It's essentially a change log of all your work on the file, as Lr doesn't actually alter the raw file itself. You can have everything written to an XMP file or directly to the catalog.

 

[TCampbell]

I'm not an expert on Lightroom (I use Aperture), but as the programs tend to have very similar features, you might check to see if Lightroom has a camera profile that it is applying.

Normally a RAW also includes an embedded JPEG preview image (thumbnail size). It's not unusual for the preview to be displayed while the RAW loads and then flip to RAW.

"but wait... there's more!"

When I use Aperture, the software has a "camera profile" and it has one of these for lots and lots of cameras. I would suspect Lightroom has a similar feature. The profile gives the software an idea of how much default processing would typically be applied to approximate what in-camera processing would have done had you just shot a JPEG. In other words... it may be adding a bit of edge-sharpening or de-noising... it may apply a bit of color adjustment, etc. But as the software applies the changes in non-destructive applications that are displayed on screen but only saved to a meta-data list of adjustments (without actually saving them over the RAW pixels), you can change the camera profile or even switch it off entirely.

You might be able to build a camera profile to apply some conservative global adjustments to your liking before you really dig in to working on the image.

 

[Derrel]

I'm not an expert on Lightroom (I use Aperture), but as the programs tend to have very similar features, you might check to see if Lightroom has a camera profile that it is applying.

Normally a RAW also includes an embedded JPEG preview image (thumbnail size). It's not unusual for the preview to be displayed while the RAW loads and then flip to RAW.

"but wait... there's more!"

When I use Aperture, the software has a "camera profile" and it has one of these for lots and lots of cameras. I would suspect Lightroom has a similar feature. The profile gives the software an idea of how much default processing would typically be applied to approximate what in-camera processing would have done had you just shot a JPEG. In other words... it may be adding a bit of edge-sharpening or de-noising... it may apply a bit of color adjustment, etc. But as the software applies the changes in non-destructive applications that are displayed on screen but only saved to a meta-data list of adjustments (without actually saving them over the RAW pixels), you can change the camera profile or even switch it off entirely.

You might be able to build a camera profile to apply some conservative global adjustments to your liking before you really dig in to working on the image.

Yes, this is exactly what's happening; Lightroom is applying a camera profile to the RAW images upon import, which is causing them to look "different". Without a tone curve, and some basic, global adjustments, your RAW images would look like dim, twilight photos shot about 30 minutes after sundown...the linear data must have a tone curve and some tweaks applied or it looks like cr**.

 

[KmH]

The File Handling panel in the Import Photos dialog has preview building options you can choose from.

Lightroom preview building options - Bing

Or see page 126 of - The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5 Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers

 

[Austin Greene]

Thanks folks! Lot's of great information here and my question was answered well beyond what I expected