Medium format cameras, a luxury or an investment

[jaomul]

As I said no offense intended. I made the mistake of not looking at your links before commenting and took it as a will I buy this or that to be excellent. After looking at your links I can see that your are already a great photographer. I can't recommend anything here as any systems you mentioned are well beyond my wallet and ability.

 

[gsgary]

Jake: First of all resolution, secondly the sound and the impact it makes on clients when you inform them that we are different than all the other photographers because we have one of the finest cameras in the world.

We want to make clients understand why we charge more... Creativity, style, experience will not be counted for the majority of business in my country. "Sad but true"

They understand materials more. So they are welling to pay more for something they can understand that it worth more.

So backing up the creativity, speed, and performance with a camera that makes the clients eyes dazzle will definitely covert to a higher sales.

It is just my opinion and I might be wrong.

In that case take a look at the Phase One IQ

 

[StandingBear1983]

OK you need to have "the look" of a pro photographer (whatever is 'the look' and BTW i think its just EGO and BS, all that matters is the IQ and the excellence of photography), though what i meant is that 35mmFF is getting closer and closer to the medium format and the medium format is getting less justifiable to buy a X5 price medium format camera then what you had once upon a time...you can see in that video that the dynamic range is ALMOST as good and the ISO in low light is much better then the hasslblad so its only a matter of time.

 

[gsgary]

OK you need to have "the look" of a pro photographer (whatever is 'the look' and BTW i think its just EGO and BS, all that matters is the IQ and the excellence of photography), though what i meant is that 35mmFF is getting closer and closer to the medium format and the medium format is getting less justifiable to buy a X5 price medium format camera then what you had once upon a time...you can see in that video that the dynamic range is ALMOST as good and the ISO in low light is much better then the hasslblad so its only a matter of time.

DSLR will never beat MF digital

 

[jake337]

I think regular DSLR's will catch up to the medium format quality very soon, you can see it today with the latest D800 (not exactly the same yet, but getting there for sure)...in a few years you will see higher dynamic range in 35mm FF...in 1/4 of the price of a medium format back.

Check out this comparison video between the D800 and a hassleblad :

A 35mm film will never be large format film. Maybe in resolution but never in magnification. This relates to film more than digital though.

Do you think medium format prices are just going to stay the same while 35mm drop? As technology advances, the cost to make it decreases.

A 35mm medium with a 250mm lens will never be the same as a 8x10 medium with a 250mm lens.

 

[jake337]

OK you need to have "the look" of a pro photographer (whatever is 'the look' and BTW i think its just EGO and BS, all that matters is the IQ and the excellence of photography), though what i meant is that 35mmFF is getting closer and closer to the medium format and the medium format is getting less justifiable to buy a X5 price medium format camera then what you had once upon a time...you can see in that video that the dynamic range is ALMOST as good and the ISO in low light is much better then the hasslblad so its only a matter of time.

DSLR will never beat MF digital

And the prices will get lower and lower as 35mm's resolution starts to catch up. Once 35mm resolution is on par then the prices will drop even more.

Doesn't Hasselblad have a system under $10,000 grand now?

 

[Buckster]

OK you need to have "the look" of a pro photographer (whatever is 'the look' and BTW i think its just EGO and BS, all that matters is the IQ and the excellence of photography), though what i meant is that 35mmFF is getting closer and closer to the medium format and the medium format is getting less justifiable to buy a X5 price medium format camera then what you had once upon a time...you can see in that video that the dynamic range is ALMOST as good and the ISO in low light is much better then the hasslblad so its only a matter of time.

DSLR will never beat MF digital

"Never" might be too strong, depending on what it takes to "beat" it.

As DSLRs continue to improve, in what ways do we think that will happen? We know that pixel counts are reaching upper limits already because of the physical limitations of lenses to resolve to much smaller photosite sizes than are already being made. But what about bit depth and dynamic range? Those could be expanded quite a lot, I'm thinking, and it seems like a logical step for the DSLR manufacturers to take, in order to stay relevant and ahead of the competition as they explore ways to improve what they offer.

Beyond overall size differences between 35mm and MF, those bit depth and dynamic range improvements are the real advantage of MF at this time, but erase those differences, and all we have left is the overall sensor size.

On that issue, we get DOF performance and the ability to enlarge further without losing quality. On the DOF, that is mostly addressed already by faster lenses associated with DSLRs. On the enlarging issue, large prints are viewed from further back, and are already being successfully produced by high end DSLRs without a problem.

So, when it's all said and done, as DSLRs improve in those areas mentioned above, taken together with the other things where they already beat MF, such as in frames per second, it may be too difficult to justify the nose-bleed-high prices of digital MF for such marginal gain, other than as status symbols. And at that point, maybe they will indeed "beat" MF digital, for all practical purposes.

I guess time will tell...

 

[Dao]

I believe you may not need the MF, but for business, you may. I agree with you that is part of the package your company deliver to your client.

The packaging of a product have nothing to do with the functionality of the product, but it help selling the product.

 

[StandingBear1983]

I have heard that hassleblad is dropping prices by 22% - that's maybe a sign of things to come :

Hasselblad Drops Camera Prices By More Than 20% | Popular Photography
Hasselblad Cuts Prices, Makes Owning Medium Format Cheap(er)

If i know something for sure in technology is never to say never , i have seen folks time and time again, saying "naaa...that will never happen" and 5 years later, they have to admit they were wrong BIG TIME .

 

[jake337]

OK you need to have "the look" of a pro photographer (whatever is 'the look' and BTW i think its just EGO and BS, all that matters is the IQ and the excellence of photography), though what i meant is that 35mmFF is getting closer and closer to the medium format and the medium format is getting less justifiable to buy a X5 price medium format camera then what you had once upon a time...you can see in that video that the dynamic range is ALMOST as good and the ISO in low light is much better then the hasslblad so its only a matter of time.

DSLR will never beat MF digital

"Never" might be too strong, depending on what it takes to "beat" it.

As DSLRs continue to improve, in what ways do we think that will happen? We know that pixel counts are reaching upper limits already because of the physical limitations of lenses to resolve to much smaller photosite sizes than are already being made. But what about bit depth and dynamic range? Those could be expanded quite a lot, I'm thinking, and it seems like a logical step for the DSLR manufacturers to take, in order to stay relevant and ahead of the competition as they explore ways to improve what they offer.

Beyond overall size differences between 35mm and MF, those bit depth and dynamic range improvements are the real advantage of MF at this time, but erase those differences, and all we have left is the overall sensor size.

On that issue, we get DOF performance and the ability to enlarge further without losing quality. On the DOF, that is mostly addressed already by faster lenses associated with DSLRs. On the enlarging issue, large prints are viewed from further back, and are already being successfully produced by high end DSLRs without a problem.

So, when it's all said and done, as DSLRs improve in those areas mentioned above, taken together with the other things where they already beat MF, such as in frames per second, it may be too difficult to justify the nose-bleed-high prices of digital MF for such marginal gain, other than as status symbols. And at that point, maybe they will indeed "beat" MF digital, for all practical purposes.

I guess time will tell...

Yeah it would be great if medium and large format started working on the areas that DSLR's kick their butt like FPS.

I would like also like to see actual medium and large format sensors in a DSLR package(may not be possible). Like an actual 6 inch by 6 inch digital sensor at reasonable prices(under 10k). Also not being a scan back would be sweet.

But by that time I may be old and withered so I'll just have fun with what I can afford and is available to me.

But who knows....

http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2011/08/23/mitchell-feinbergs-8x10-digital-capture-back/

 

[Buckster]

I'd love to get an affordable MF digital back for my Mamiya 645, RB67 or Hassy 500C, but I don't know if I'll live long enough to see the prices come down to where I live, financially speaking. Even in the used categories, the only ones that I can even think about affording are so old, they're already blown away by modern DSLRs.

 

[gsgary]

DSLR will never beat MF digital

"Never" might be too strong, depending on what it takes to "beat" it.

As DSLRs continue to improve, in what ways do we think that will happen? We know that pixel counts are reaching upper limits already because of the physical limitations of lenses to resolve to much smaller photosite sizes than are already being made. But what about bit depth and dynamic range? Those could be expanded quite a lot, I'm thinking, and it seems like a logical step for the DSLR manufacturers to take, in order to stay relevant and ahead of the competition as they explore ways to improve what they offer.

Beyond overall size differences between 35mm and MF, those bit depth and dynamic range improvements are the real advantage of MF at this time, but erase those differences, and all we have left is the overall sensor size.

On that issue, we get DOF performance and the ability to enlarge further without losing quality. On the DOF, that is mostly addressed already by faster lenses associated with DSLRs. On the enlarging issue, large prints are viewed from further back, and are already being successfully produced by high end DSLRs without a problem.

So, when it's all said and done, as DSLRs improve in those areas mentioned above, taken together with the other things where they already beat MF, such as in frames per second, it may be too difficult to justify the nose-bleed-high prices of digital MF for such marginal gain, other than as status symbols. And at that point, maybe they will indeed "beat" MF digital, for all practical purposes.

I guess time will tell...

Yeah it would be great if medium and large format started working on the areas that DSLR's kick their butt like FPS.

I would like also like to see actual medium and large format sensors in a DSLR package(may not be possible). Like an actual 6 inch by 6 inch digital sensor at reasonable prices(under 10k). Also not being a scan back would be sweet.

But by that time I may be old and withered so I'll just have fun with what I can afford and is available to me.

But who knows....

Mitchell Feinberg’s 8×10 Digital Capture Back

Here you go Pentax 645D Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) 17971 B&H Photo Video

 

[2WheelPhoto]

I agree DSLR FF sensor will never beat MF.....

Providing the MF makers continue product improvements too through research and development.

I don't think a smart phone sensor will ever beat a full frame either.

 

[jake337]

"Never" might be too strong, depending on what it takes to "beat" it.

As DSLRs continue to improve, in what ways do we think that will happen? We know that pixel counts are reaching upper limits already because of the physical limitations of lenses to resolve to much smaller photosite sizes than are already being made. But what about bit depth and dynamic range? Those could be expanded quite a lot, I'm thinking, and it seems like a logical step for the DSLR manufacturers to take, in order to stay relevant and ahead of the competition as they explore ways to improve what they offer.

Beyond overall size differences between 35mm and MF, those bit depth and dynamic range improvements are the real advantage of MF at this time, but erase those differences, and all we have left is the overall sensor size.

On that issue, we get DOF performance and the ability to enlarge further without losing quality. On the DOF, that is mostly addressed already by faster lenses associated with DSLRs. On the enlarging issue, large prints are viewed from further back, and are already being successfully produced by high end DSLRs without a problem.

So, when it's all said and done, as DSLRs improve in those areas mentioned above, taken together with the other things where they already beat MF, such as in frames per second, it may be too difficult to justify the nose-bleed-high prices of digital MF for such marginal gain, other than as status symbols. And at that point, maybe they will indeed "beat" MF digital, for all practical purposes.

I guess time will tell...

Yeah it would be great if medium and large format started working on the areas that DSLR's kick their butt like FPS.

I would like also like to see actual medium and large format sensors in a DSLR package(may not be possible). Like an actual 6 inch by 6 inch digital sensor at reasonable prices(under 10k). Also not being a scan back would be sweet.

But by that time I may be old and withered so I'll just have fun with what I can afford and is available to me.

But who knows....

Mitchell Feinberg’s 8×10 Digital Capture Back

Here you go Pentax 645D Digital SLR Camera (Body Only) 17971 B&H Photo Video

Yes! but in inches that sensor is 1.73228346 x 1.2992126 inches. I want to see a true 6x6 digital sensor in DSLR form!

 

[c.cloudwalker]

The majority of the members here are not running a photography business nor privy to your type of business, their recommendations may not be on key.

:thumbup:

I was running a fairly large studio until recently and I am somewhat privy to the OP's type of business as he spells it out in his opening post...

However, I'm not familiar with Bahrain's ways of photography so I have not the slightest idea if this is an amateur who thinks he can do it all like a pro (after all if you can make a chick look good, why not a dog? ) or if this is the usual way of business there... A photog does it all. For all I know, it is.


So anyways, usayit, is quite right. I probably can't help you and you need to either tell us a lot more about you and your country, at the risk of putting 3/4s of the members to sleep, or you need to do your own market analysis.

I used Hasselblads in my studio. The person who bought my studio thought it was a good idea and bought the gear with the place. Then again, I didn't do pets. I didn't do kids either. And I was right outside of Paris...