Need advise on running

molested_cow · Dec 2, 2011

For 5k I used to do at around 28~29min. My quickest was 26ish when I ran into a thunder storm and needed to get back asap! Now I do it at around 30min. I don't feel out of breath after running, just "normal". I think it's because I am so used to the environment and the pace that it doesn't pose any kind of challenge to me anymore.

After the run I stay around to do a few rounds of push and pull ups, takes another 30min. The weather is getting cold these days so I can't stay out there as long as before after the run.

molested_cow · Dec 2, 2011

memento said:
OP - you want a real workout... swim 1500 meters!

Riding a bicycle is my thing

Oh swimming! Yes I know! I used to swim like a fish when I was little and full of energy, then stopped for like 20 years lol! Felt the pain when I jumped back into the pool last year and man, it really sucks energy quick! It feels damn good though.

What kind of cycling do you do? I used to mountain bike, but i am a slow mt bikers cus I am a *****. I had a hard tail so I could keep up on uphill but crap out when going down.
That said, I can stay on a pretty good sustained pace on roads even on my mt bike. I used to do one hr trail and one hr road back to back (6m rocky trail + 12 mile road). That was a damn good work out.

Biking is big here, a lot of bikers of all kinds. There are a lot of mountain roads so I see a lot of crazy road bikers doing crazy cardio routes. Well, the most crazy one I've seen was in China. 4100m up there, a lone biker. I was gasping for oxygen and this dude was just doing his thang!

I don't have a bike now, so everything will have to start from scratch if I do get into it again. I just feel that running is a lot easier, more affordable too, but is taking more tolls on my body than I want. Also, I am scared of clipless.....

lolondar · Dec 2, 2011

get a walmart bike hauling around that 20 lb thing of so called aluminum is a workout in itself

here go for the military standard run 5 miles in 45 minutes

or run 2 in 14:00

thats just to see what kinda shape your in

molested_cow · Dec 2, 2011

Well, if I sustain 30min 5k for 8k, I will cut pretty close to 45min..... but that's a BIG "if"

Good point on walmart bike. Extra weight and inefficiency in design will make the workout more efficient! I should also wear my full face motorcycle helmet and camera gears while at it too!

memento · Dec 2, 2011

molested_cow said:
For 5k... I do it at around 30min.

There's your incentive. Get a stop watch/ heart rate monitor. You know what you can do... so next time you go out, try for 29/28 minutes.

But again, if you're just going out to cheap exercise, just run for about 45 minutes.
Do that 3 or 4 times a week and watch what you eat, I guarantee the lbs will fall off of you.

I do have a mtn bike but that's more for fun. I 'train' on a road bike. I have a 26 mile hill loop i do 2 to 4 times a week. Not so much this time of year, I spend more time in the pool during the winter.

Craigs List is an awesome place to find a bicycle. Wait until after xmas, when someone gets a new one and they're trying to unload their old one in the middle of the winter. One piece of advise about a road bike... get fitted. Fit is crucial on a road bike. You will hurt yourself if you start riding a lot of miles on a bike that's too big or small.

lolondar · Dec 2, 2011

i dunno about the full face gear

when i was in the military i had to save on gas so i rode a bike to work everyday ... 7 1/2 miles pt then at the end of the day 7 1/2 miles back

then shower and photojog for the win

lolondar · Dec 2, 2011

pt = physical training btw which was mostly running

Compaq · Dec 2, 2011

molested_cow said:
Not like "away from cops" kind of advice!

I've been running since the beginning of this year, 5km/3miles on alternative days amongst other exercises like push ups, pull ups and sit ups.
Over the past year, I have developed a pace that I feel very comfortable with, too comfortable that is. Basically, I am not improving in pace or time. When I increase my pace, it doesn't last long. However if I keep to my pace, I can go on and on and on, easily beyond 5k.

Observing other better runners, I feel that my stride isn't "light" enough. I feel that my heel is still touching the ground too much. It's amazing how those guys run like as if their bodies are feather weight, and their strides are as though they are floating in the air. I tried to mic mick them but it's felt really unnatural for me.

The reason why I want to improve my pace or stride is I want to over come this "plateau" and lose more weight! Generally, I just want to feel better. Any enlightening words?

FYI I don't know anyone personally who runs and my family are all couch potatoes.

The "normal" running shoes we buy aren't designed for toe running. The attenuation (is that correct use of word?) is all in the heel. There's nothing wrong with landing on your heel, but beware of how your foot is turning upon landing. Google "pronation" and you'll get more info. The wrong shoe might damage your knee over time.

If you want to increase your oxygen intake, I strongly suggest you run intervals. Much, much more effective. For example 4x4 intervals (which there have been several studies on, and it's very effective). 4x4 intervals is simply 4 intervals of 4 minutes, with a three minute slower-rate running in-between. In the intervals, you want to work yourself up toward max heart rate in the final interval. To reach those high heart rates, it's very effective to run in a slight hill. The three minute "breaks" are to burn milk acid in your muscles.

Intervals is extremely effective on reducing your fat percentage. That is what you want, not really "go down in weight". Who cares about their weight, it's the fat people want removed. Intervals burns fat.... that is, you're challenging your body. Why should the body change if it's not physically challenged? Push yourself. Not too much, obviously, but don't stay in the "comfort zone". Also, if you want to reduce your fat percentage, you really do need to eat correctly. Proteins are key, little fat and sufficient amounts of carbs. That worked really well for me, I lost almost 15 kg in 6 months. I went from around 85 to almost almost 70 kg. (convert yourself

)... The thing I found was that be careful of what you eat before you go to bed. Your supper should mainly be proteins. Eating enough proteins will make sure you don't burn too much muscle, but rather burn the fat. A nice, and cheap, protein source is pure chicken (not those marinated things). Fat fish (salmon, trout etc) is also a nice source. Here you get essential fatty acids as well. I ate well 6 days a weak, and allowed myself to eat "whatever I wanted" on Saturdays. The Sunday was a hard day

hehe.

This might seem like much effort for little. BUT, this is the correct way to burn fat. Pills don't take them. Any other miraculous diet, don't try it. This is guaranteed to work. It takes time, perhaps a little longer for some. It all depends on the individual. BUT, if you reduce your intake of calories, run (either intervals, long distance running, or really any activity three times a week that burn calories), and you will see result. You really get into shape, you eat well and feel the differences, you can feel you getting better times in your running. It's great. It takes, however, commitment, and kind friends who will not offer you any chocolate or other food that's not in your program. Set up what you want to eat for breakfast each day, dinner each day. What I did was to eat chicken a few days, salmon a few other days for dinner and supper. Breakfast I just ate bread with ham or something.

And remember your minerals and stuff, those are important. Perhaps pills containing the needed if you can't get it via your regular food.

If you find it hard to get enough proteins each day through your meals, then try protein powder.. Very easy, it tastes good and contains the amino acids you need.

edit: challenging your body with different types of training is very smart. Your body might "get used to" being challenged a certain way. If you have a bike, use it. If you have a pool nearby, swim. Jumping ropes are brilliant. Intensive strength training works wonders.

JClishe · Dec 3, 2011

There's been some good information here, but it all boils down to one simple truth: You have to run fast to run fast. Want to run faster? Then run faster.

You said that you have developed a pace that you're comfortable with, and you can go long at this pace, but you're not getting faster. Of course not. You get faster by running faster, and you're not running faster. If you're always running 10 minute miles, you're not magically going to start running 9 minute miles. If you want to run a 9 minute mile pace, then you have to run a 9 minute mile pace.

Obviously you can't just one day decide to go from a 10 minute mile to a 9 minute mile. But you can run a 9 minute mile PACE. You just won't be able to keep it up for an entire mile. This is where intervals come in (which has been mentioned a couple of times in this thread). As you spend more and more time at a 9 min/mi pace, that pace will be become more comfortable and you'll eventually find yourself doing an entire 9 minute mile. It doesn't matter whether your speed interval is 60 seconds, 4 minutes, or something else, the point is that you are repeatedly forcing yourself out of your comfortable pace and into a faster pace. Now, how long should the intervals be? Depends on your goals. If you're goal is to continually improve your 5-8k pace, than 60 second intervals are too short. 4 minutes is better but I'd be targetting anywhere from 4 to 8 or 10 minutes. If you're running a pace that you can maintain longer than 10 minutes then you're probably not running fast enough, but if your intervals are shorter than 4 minutes than you're going to struggle with distance (unless your goal is to be a track sprinter, in which case sub 4 minutes is fine).

Heart rate becomes an important pacing tool here. How do you know what pace you could/should maintain for a 10 minute "fast" effort? This is where heart rate comes into play. The nitty gritty of this is way beyond what I want to get into here, but think of your heart as having 5 training zones, and each zone is a tool to measure effort and pace. Zone 1 is easy warmup pace/fast walking, zone 2 is "go forever" / marathon pace, zone 3 is 8k to 1/2 marathon pace, zone 4 is 5k pace, and zone 5 is all out sprint. Comfortable running is zone 2, and based on your original post it sounds like this is where you run. Which is to be expected, as this is the pace that people will naturally settle into if they're not specifically pushing. But, your interval pace needs to be in zone 4. The benefit of using heart rate to measure effort is consistency: as you get fitter and faster, you will run faster within a given heart rate zone. Zone 4 will always be fast and it will always feel tough. Even though you and I might have different zone 4 paces, the perceived effort for each of us will be the same. My zone 4 feels just like your zone 4, even if our pace is very different. However, as you get fitter and faster you will need to 'recalibrate'. 9 minute miles might be zone 4 today, but in 5 months 9 min/mi might be zone 3 because you've gotten fitter. So you need to find what your new zone 4 pace is. Personally, I test every 3 months to re-calibrate my training zones.

A typical workout for me would look something like this: 10 minute warmup, 1/2 mile in zone 4, 2 minute rest, 2 sets of 1 mile in zone 4 followed by a 4 minute rest after each, then another 1/2 mile in zone 4 with a 2 minute rest after, then 10-15 minutes in zone 3, then a 5 minute cool down. That's a lot of time spent running "fast" (zone 4).

I realize that's a lot of detail, but the main point is what I said at the beginning. Running faster is a simple concept: You have to run fast to run fast.

Jason

molested_cow · Dec 4, 2011

Weather was awesome today and I was excited to try interval training, but half way into the run I felt like puking..... totally ignored the fact that I am still recovering from stomach flu lol!

shootermcgavin · Dec 4, 2011

My 2 cents, if you're doing it to lose weight don't worry about how fast you are running or stride you're not doing it for long enough and you don't need to run half as much. The best thing for weight loss would be something like walking at a fast pace for 5 min and sprinting for 1-2 minutes. Do that for more like an hour. I've lost weight for boxing and getting back in the dating scene and that is the best way to lose weight that I have found with a correct diet that is. I've lost as much as 30lbs in a month doing that, eating right, and pull ups and dips.