SHOOT/EDIT/PRINT

[KmH]

Resolution is the pixel dimensions of the photo, not the PPI (pixels-per-inch, not dpi which is dots-per-inch). The PPI is meaningless until a photo is printed.

Don't size them. Just leave them in their native resolution. The print lab's RIP software will do what needs to be done when a customer uploads one to be printed..

Your profile syas you have a Canon Rebel. Which one? The last time I counted Canaon has made 26 different Canon Rebels.

For what it is worth:

If the native resolution of your camera is say 4752 x 3168 pixels, and you assign 300 PPI to the photos you put on the disc, the math works out like this:

The long side of 4752 pixels ÷ 300 PPI (pixels per inch) = 15.84 inches.

But if 200 PPI is assigned then 4752 pixels ÷ 200 PPI = 23.76 inches

 

[Kimmy1210]

Why is something that seems so simple seem SO hard right now... I just thought I was beginning to understand it all & now I feel like I've taken a few steps back. I have the rebel T1i... great great camera.

OK.. this is exactly what I've been doing. Saving ALL edited images as 4 x 6 (leaving resolution blank)... and not filling anything else in as far as numbers (DPI).. again, which I thought was the same as resolution.. but now I realize differently. If I leave the size blank & put in 300 for resolution, they should be-able to blow up fairly big, correct and save them as JPEGS. For web/fb, save them as 4 x 6 resolution of 150?

 

[dots]

4x6 you mean 2:3 format yea?

You supply the pixels. Let the printers worry about dpi - that's a print nozzle thing. Just give them enough to pixels to utilise, as per their requests.
In fact first time you send over the work, clarify that their procedures will assign a dpi value for output, regardless of the one notionally embedded in your file (if indeed it is/was/has been).

 

[dots]

It's irrelevant for web. Your monitor can be 1084x768 pixels....that can be a 21" monitor or a 10" pocket tablet.

 

[Kimmy1210]

Someone said that MPIX is taking the TIFF files, but it just takes a long time---(the uploading process)... I feel lost all over again. Now I know to save in high resolution (JPEG) vs. TIFF files... arrrr... remember when you first started learning... you just want to rip your hair out.

 

[clanthar]

DPI is dots per inch and PPI is pixels per inch and given what you're doing right now a dot is a pixel and a pixel is a dot. You can think of them as equivalent.

I'm surprised that Elements allows you to leave the resolution field blank as Photoshop does not.

Your camera has a native megapixel capacity. For example you may have a 12 megapixel camera. A typical 12 megapixel camera produces a photo that is 4096 x 3072 pixels for a grand total of 12,582,912 pixels or dots. If you don't resize that photo it will make a 13.6 x 10.2 inch print at 300 DPI. If you don't resize that photo and make a 4.5 x 6 inch print the DPI will be 683. If you resize the photo to make a 4.5 x 6 inch print at 300 DPI you will discard data. You will now have 2,430,000 pixels. That's OK as long as you don't intend to ever make a larger print from that same file. If you have a photo that is 4.5 x 6 inches at 300 DPI and you try and make a 13.6 x 10.2 inch print from that file the DPI will drop to 130 which is pretty low. If you try and make a 16 x 20 inch print from the same file the DPI will drop to 90.

DPI and PPI is dots or pixels per inch. If you change the inches the dots/pixels have to spread out or squeeze in so you get more or less dots/pixels as you change inches. That's assuming you don't increase or decrease the total number or dots/pixels.

If you decrease the total number of pixels by lowering the resolution over a constant size in inches then you discard data that you can never get back. Only do that if you know for certain that you will never want that data back.

You can ask software (Photoshop) to increase the total number of pixels by raising the resolution over a constant size in inches. When you do this the software will invent data (pixels/dots) that isn't there by guessing at what it thinks might have been there. This will always produce a result that is inferior to having either recorded the data in the first place or not having discarded it in the first place.

Joe

 

[CCericola]

I'm surprised that Elements allows you to leave the resolution field blank as Photoshop does not.

Yes it does. When you use the crop tool.

 

[clanthar]

I'm surprised that Elements allows you to leave the resolution field blank as Photoshop does not.

Yes it does. When you use the crop tool.

That's fascinating. Can I assume then that in using the crop tool with the res field blank that Elements does not resample the photo?

Joe

 

[Kimmy1210]

OK.. you guys are all wonderful, truly, you are & I totally appreciate all the help... even though I still somewhat feel like I'm reading a different language as it can be pretty confusing.

Bottom line--if I'm going to put all images on a CD for people & let's say I'm going to tell them the max size they can order is 11 x14, anything beyond that, they would need to order through me (that way i can go and resize/whatever) to their size of choice... but if max is 11 x 14, I should leave size blank & put in 300 for resolution and save as JPEG at about a 10 (large file)? So anything 11 x 14 and smaller should all print OK for that resolution w/ no size indicated?

 

[CCericola]

I'm surprised that Elements allows you to leave the resolution field blank as Photoshop does not.

Yes it does. When you use the crop tool.

That's fascinating. Can I assume then that in using the crop tool with the res field blank that Elements does not resample the photo?

Joe

Yes, but when you set the physical size of the image in inches in the Crop tool options and you don't change the resolution, the pixel dimensions change.

 

[KmH]

Someone said that MPIX is taking the TIFF files, but it just takes a long time---(the uploading process)... I feel lost all over again. Now I know to save in high resolution (JPEG) vs. TIFF files... arrrr... remember when you first started learning... you just want to rip your hair out.

Go straight to the source, don't rely on second hand information: Mpix.com - Help

How to prepare your files for printing
Please save your files in sRGB color space in 8-bit color, not 16-bit, to achieve the best print results. Also, please do NOT embed any profiles. Please - no CMYK, Grayscale, RAW, PSD or LZW compressed files, and if you work in layers, be sure to flatten the file and remove any extra channels before sending. We print from JPEG format files. Lossless or highest quality JPEG compressions are more than adequate for high quality printing. In the early days of digital that wasn't always the case; however, the compression algorithms have become very sophisticated and it is nearly impossible to distinguish a JPEG print from a TIFF print with the naked eye.

 

[dots]

Kimmy, I think whether you stipulate a dpi value or not, it won't have any relevance to how Mpix print your pictures.

"DPI stands for "dots per inch" and is a property of a printer and printer driver software, not a digital image."
Display, Printing, DPI and PPI - photo.net


"The Mpix printers output at 250 ppi."
Mpix.com - Help


If you want an 11 x 14 from Mpix, send them a jpeg that is (11 x 250) x (14 x 250) resolution. sRGB colorspace.

That is all you need to do.

When they queue your job, their printer will output your job in the same way as the one prior and the one following. I don't believe it is over-ridden by what you assigned in Photoshop.

A DPI dot is not a pixel. It's a singular application of ink, onto paper/support.

 

[clanthar]

"...DPI stands for "dots per inch" and is a property of a printer and printer driver software, not a digital image."
Display, Printing, DPI and PPI - photo.net

..."The Mpix printers output at 250 ppi."

...A DPI dot is not a pixel. It's a singular application of ink, onto paper/support.

This is technically correct, however the problem is one of sloppy language, not buy you, but by everyone else. When Kimmy started this thread she was thinking about the resolution of her image file and like so many photographers saying DPI.

Just above you said the Mpix printers output at 250 ppi. No, they're printers and they print dots not pixels. This gets so much more confusing for people when you have to add in that ppi and dpi do not translate directly. Right now it's not going to be helpful to Kimmy to try and explain why an image at 300 ppi requires 256 dots per pixel for output to a 2400 dpi printer. If Mpix takes 250 ppi images then whats the dpi of their printers? Kimmy needs the focus to stay on her image files and their size over resolution. Once she gets a grip on that we can worry about exact terminology.

Kimmy, I don't use Elements so I'm not sure what it's telling you. I was just surprised to learn it leaves the resolution field blank when you resize. I'd like to assume that means it simply sets print dimensions and doesn't otherwise resample your image, but I don't know that for sure.

Resampling means removing pixels from your file that are already there and/or adding pixels that weren't originally there. Both things can be very bad. Bottom line: When you have an image ready to save for a customer as a JPEG at a given print size (say 11x14) you want to know what the resolution is at that print size. With modern print technology a resolution of 200 to 300 ppi will make you and your customers happy with their prints.

Here's the biggest bad thing you want to avoid: Saving a small size print (4x6) at X resolution when in the future you would want to print that file larger. Increasing the print size (inches) forces a decrease in the resolution and that's bad. Resampling up to compensate adds pixels that weren't there and that's bad. So you want to make sure that you've delivered a file with enough resolution to output at the largest size.

Joe

 

[dots]

Just above you said the Mpix printers output at 250 ppi. No, they're printers and they print dots not pixels.

Good call.

 

[clanthar]

Just above you said the Mpix printers output at 250 ppi. No, they're printers and they print dots not pixels.

Good call.

Thanks.

I'm just trying to keep the focus on helping the OP. You're absolutely right and I absolutely agree with you, but that's not going to stop a bazillion photographers tomorrow from referring to the resolution of their photos and saying dpi. I used to work in a press shop and lord the stories I could tell you about graphic designers and photographers actually believing that the ppi of their files had to be an exact match to the dpi of the printer -- 1 to 1 correlation. And the only number they could ever remember was 300. "The world is only 300 dpi and I'm happy cause I don't worry." Sometimes it's just easier not to worry them. Now I'm sounding a little too elitist.

I wish I had a copy of Elements so I could see exactly what it does.

Anyway, we understand each other and hopefully Kimmy is figuring it out.

Joe