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I am German, because I was born to German parents. You are Americans because you were born to American soil.

Actually I'm what we call in the south "a fence climber" :biggrin: A mixture of German, Swiss, Scot, and English (that I know of), all immigrants dating back to 116 years prior to the American Revolution. Unlike many Europeans who's lineage is more limited, we do consider ourselves Americans first, that's who we are, but because of the melting pot nature of our country we can share the customs of others without bias.
 
Here Frank, Gary agrees with you ... with a caveat to disagree:

"I am German, because I was born to German parents. You are Americans because you were born to American soil."

Certainly, a citizen by birthright is obviously true in most countries. But ... Gary believes that being American is also more of a mindset than the happenstance of where one was born.

This is where you start with the mindset:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness."

Recognizing that our own unalienable Rights of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness are best protected and preserved by respecting and tolerating the unalienable rights of others is another cornerstone of the American mindset.

Unfortunately ... or Fortunately, the tolerance designed into our Constitution is broad enough to encompass the contradictions and pragmatism you have highlighted. No system is perfect. But Gary has observed from small communities to the nation as a whole, we try to keep what works, dump what doesn't work and amend that which needs improvement. But the process in many cases isn't very pretty.

America is certainly a place ... to many, being American is also a state of mind. A while ago, an American president visited Germany. He made a pretty good speech about our system and mindset.



"I am proud to come to this city as the guest of your distinguished Mayor, who has symbolized throughout the world the fighting spirit of West Berlin. And I am proud to visit the Federal Republic with your distinguished Chancellor who for so many years has committed Germany to democracy and freedom and progress, and to come here in the company of my fellow American, General Clay, who has been in this city during its great moments of crisis and will come again if ever needed.

Two thousand years ago the proudest boast was "civis Romanus sum". Today, in the world of freedom, the proudest boast is "Ich bin ein Berliner".

I appreciate my interpreter translating my German!

There are many people in the world who really don't understand, or say they don't, what is the great issue between the free world and the Communist world.

Let them come to Berlin.

There are some who say that communism is the wave of the future. Let them come to Berlin. And there are some who say in Europe and elsewhere we can work with the Communists.

Let them come to Berlin.

And there are even a few who say that it is true that communism is an evil system, but it permits us to make economic progress. Lass' sie nach Berlin kommen. Let them come to Berlin.

Freedom has many difficulties and democracy is not perfect, but we have never had to put a wall up to keep our people in, to prevent them from leaving us. I want to say, on behalf of my countrymen, who live many miles away on the other side of the Atlantic, who are far distant from you, that they take the greatest pride that they have been able to share with you, even from a distance, the story of the last 18 years. I know of no town, no city, that has been besieged for 18 years that still lives with the vitality and the force, and the hope and the determination of the city of West Berlin. While the wall is the most obvious and vivid demonstration of the failures of the Communist system, for all the world to see, we take no satisfaction in it, for it is, as your Mayor has said, an offense not only against history but an offense against humanity, separating families, dividing husbands and wives and brothers and sisters, and dividing a people who wish to be joined together.

What is true of this city is true of Germany - real, lasting peace in Europe can never be assured as long as one German out of four is denied the elementary right of free men, and that is to make a free choice. In 18 years of peace and good faith, this generation of Germans has earned the right to be free, including the right to unite their families and their nation in lasting peace, with goodwill to all people. You live in a defended island of freedom, but your life is part of the main. So let me ask you as I close, to lift your eyes beyond the dangers of today, to the hopes of tomorrow, beyond the freedom merely of this city of Berlin, or your country of Germany, to the advance of freedom everywhere, beyond the wall to the day of peace with justice, beyond yourselves and ourselves to all mankind.

Freedom is indivisible, and when one man is enslaved, all are not free. When all are free, then we can look forward to that day when this city will be joined as one and this country and this great Continent of Europe in a peaceful and hopeful globe. When that day finally comes, as it will, the people of West Berlin can take sober satisfaction in the fact that they were in the front lines for almost two decades.

All free men, wherever they may live, are citizens of Berlin, and, therefore, as a free man, I take pride in the words 'Ich bin ein Berliner'."
 
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Interesting document full of justification. Why?

My version would read: "English ursupators go home. We are sick and tired of you. Do you not dare to come back and involve in our matters. We are free people, make our own choices and will forcefully defend that position. With all due respect: f*ck off."

Germans were always rough people worshipping rough gods under rough trees in rough forests in rough ways.

Civilization came from outside. Romans, Russians, Austrians, French, Americans. Whoever was able to beat us in the field has later become our teacher.

Rule and obey are two sides of the same coin, stand tall and bow too. That is Germany.

I am German, because I was born to German parents. You are Americans because you were born to American soil.

Germans and Danes are the only people with a female sun and a male moon.
The revolutionaries wanted to show eloquence and intelligent thought. The revolutionaries, our founding fathers, believed the Englanders thought of them as lesser and not worthy/capable of self-governance. The Brits were not usurpations in the classical sense of a foreign power dominating another country by force of arms. The colonists were "British", but Brits with less rights and recourse than those enjoyed in England. Sorta like a teenager standing up to an over-controlling parent.

As to beating the Germans in the field ... that was always a tall order. Unfortunately, you guys seem to bite off more than you could chew.
 
Please keep politics and political statements out of the Coffee House thread and the main forums. The Subscriber's Forum provides plenty of opportunity to discuss, debate and opine about national and international politics. I've deleted a few posts here that crossed the line.

Thanks!
 
Please keep politics and political statements out of the Coffee House thread and the main forums. The Subscriber's Forum provides plenty of opportunity to discuss, debate and opine about national and international politics. I've deleted a few posts here that crossed the line.

Thanks!
Just when I started to reply, darn. ;)
 
Please keep politics and political statements out of the Coffee House thread and the main forums. The Subscriber's Forum provides plenty of opportunity to discuss, debate and opine about national and international politics. I've deleted a few posts here that crossed the line.

Thanks!
Just when I started to reply, darn. ;)


Too late. Get thee to the Subscriber's forum! (Sorry just watched Ep 1 of Will on TNT - horrible btw)
 
The thing about a free country is that people can for example make movies that contain violence, or go watch them, but it doesn't mean I have to do it. It doesn't necessarily mean the majority of people want it either, but somebody has the freedom to make or watch those type movies if they so choose.

And what makes the news or ends up all over the internet is usually the more extreme or notable things that happen, not most of us living our daily lives - we're boring, not newsworthy! lol

Gee we're on a serious conversation today!
 
Sorry just watched Ep 1 of Will on TNT - horrible btw
Hmm. I hadn't heard of that, but after searching the internet, I'm not sure I want to view it. :icon_scratch:
 
Oh, well, now I read SharonCat's post! Anyway my family is part German, but didn't come here all that long ago (great grandfather). Some are from Ireland, and on the other side, some from England. We're descended from one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence so that part of my ancestry has been here awhile.
 
Change the letters around and you'd have a Kcup.

Yucky weather today, good bit of rain but still warm and stuffy. Possible severe storms or at least a whole lotta rain coming later. So this should be a good day to get caught up on my online class... but I don't feel very motivated at the moment! lol maybe later...
 

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