true black and white

[bribrius]

i know catch phrase but noticed many images arent really actually black and white, even my own seem to often come out with a bluish tint at times especially after walmart printing. LOL yah i know.....
comparing to actual black and white which seems harder than one would think to really reproduce i thought i would open this discussion. Also the change in the perception of black and white from film to digital.

 

[SCraig]

Just a pure guess on my part, but I suspect places like Walmart are printing black and white negatives on color paper with color chemistry. There is zero money in B&W file processing and printing these days, so it would not make fiscal sense to have separate processing systems any longer. I could certainly be wrong though.

 

[Ysarex83 77]

In making a fine B&W print in the darkroom the color of the print is an important consideration. A completely neutral B&W print is generally frowned upon. We have all kinds of chemical tricks we employ to subtly shift the color of B&W prints. Starting with the paper. The silver salts on the paper are usually a combination of bromide and chlorobromide salts. A pure bromide paper will process to a bluish black color while a pure chlorobromide paper will process to a warm, olive green color. Variations in the developing chemistry and then toning of the print after processing also allow us to shift the final color. The result should be subtle in most cases but certainly it should have an influence. A cold blue black bromide emulsion processed with a pinch of benzotriazole in the developer for a steel and concrete architectural shot or a chlorobromide emulsion with a little potassium bromide in the developer and some selenium before washing for a portrait.

Joe

 

[DarkHoody]

A completely neutral B&W print is generally frowned upon.

I'd like to know why.

 

[john.margetts]

This is why I always use the term 'monochrome'. My personal preference is to a slight purplish tint in the blacks.

www.johns-old-cameras.blogspot.co.uk

 

[Tim Tucker]

A completely neutral B&W print is generally frowned upon.

I'd like to know why.

A neutral B&W wet print was difficult to achieve, so to a certain extent they look odd because you're not used to seeing them. But beyond that I agree with Ysarex, I find them to be flat and a little impersonal in comparison and always put a slight tint on my digital B&W which is normally a warmer tone on the landscapes and a slightly cooler tone for less landscape stuff.

I'm always a little bemused by the 'pure B&W' as it seems to be just the application of an exact definition that the digital crowd seem fond of. It even extends to the use of pure black or grey inks. When you consider that grey is just a shade of white, a neutral balance reflecting all wavelengths of colour, and the nature of subtractive inks it seems odd that many stay within the self defined 'pure B&W' with it being so restrictive. Wet prints always had a colour.

 

[DarkHoody]

Ah, thanks for explaining.

But doesn't that also depend on taste? I mean not everyone likes puppies some like spiders.

 

[Tim Tucker]

Ah, thanks for explaining.

But doesn't that also depend on taste? I mean not everyone likes puppies some like spiders.

Yes, taste does come into it. Tastes and fashions change with the times, largely dependant on what's current and catchy. And though photographers may prefer the exactness of 'pure B&W' it doesn't necessarily give the image more depth or punch. Given that pure neutral is difficult to achieve, and that even in digital prints the colour balance of the light source has to be taken into account, I think that the greater number of viewers will always be exposed to and prefer slightly tinted prints.

With the printing you can achieve a neutral tone with CMYK, and generally better gradation and resolution than with black or grey inks alone. With the subtractive printing process B&W (grey) is just a balance of colour.

 

[Ysarex83 77]

A completely neutral B&W print is generally frowned upon.

I'd like to know why.

The fine art community has been in consensus on this question for a very long time. As an object of fine art the B&W print's physical properties are important -- not just the image portrayed. Physical properties include the surface appearance of the paper and color. Color allows the photographer to enhance the expressiveness of the photo shifting primarily between cold versus warm tones. The expectation is in place that the artist will make this choice purposefully and skillfully.

Joe

 

[KenC]

Yes, most B&W looks better with a (usually) subtle tint. This is also easy to do digitally because there is a "tint" box on the B&W adjustment layer in PS (or you could use the conversion tab in ACR). One can adjust the hue, saturation and lightness of the tint by using a color picker.

 

[bribrius]

dunno guys i was on a mission to recreate the look of 40s film and still havent pulled it off seems everything has a damn tint and too much detail. I will try again soon.

 

[pixmedic]

Paul Simon said it best...

 

[Ysarex83 77]

dunno guys i was on a mission to recreate the look of 40s film and still havent pulled it off seems everything has a damn tint and too much detail. I will try again soon.

How do you know what 40s film looked like? Do you mean what 40s film looks like now after it has faded for the past 75 years?

Joe

 

[bribrius]

dunno guys i was on a mission to recreate the look of 40s film and still havent pulled it off seems everything has a damn tint and too much detail. I will try again soon.

How do you know what 40s film looked like? Do you mean what 40s film looks like now after it has faded for the past 75 years?

Joe

point taken. Basically i watch a older movie every so often and decide i want to try to replicate the look of it then give out shortly after

 

[xenskhe]

point taken. Basically i watch a older movie every so often and decide i want to try to replicate the look of it

Orthochromatic? Sensitive to only blue and green light, reds are dark.