An Excersice On the Effect Of Distance

[smoke665]

I predict you will become a master of light and that will take you images to a new level.

Appreciate the kind words but, I fear you over estimate me. There are a lot of mistakes that don't make it online.

 

[mrca]

If you aren't making mistakes, you aren't growing. How many photographers have you met afraid to make a mistake or just wanted a canned approach. You aren't afraid to ask for critique. Folks don't know what they don't know so it is important to get feed back then use your own judgement as to accept or modify the recommendations. So much of this is subjective. You are learning the techniques that you will eventually be able to draw upon and combine at will in your own unique way. You will be making images that come from your heart and mind, not just copied from someone. You are taking the right path to be able to achieve it. I have seen it before and see it in your hard work. Keep at it. Of so many photographers on this site, I see you and a few others working hard to master the craft. Remember, it is a work in progress and always something to learn. It is the beauty of photography.

 

[Braineack]

When building a shot, always start with one light. usually main or fill.

Main light only.

Turn it off and then add another and you will be able to see what that one light does, adjust power and position. eg, a kicker.

Main with Fill (reflector)

Continue that way adding one light at a time and evaluation position, power then examine it with all the previous lights on.

Kicker/Hair light

BG light

All together.

 

[smoke665]

@Braineack Nice example (subject could be better) LOL Kidding. Thanks for confirming I'm not so far off.

I do pretty much the same except I'm generally using two lights for key and fill. My routine is to set the key, meter at the desired level which becomes the basis for everything else, next I set the fill and meter to get my desired ratio, next comes the kicker, which I meter with the key as the basis. At that point any additional lighting is added to the equation and also metered, based on the key. Last to be set and metered are the background lights. I used to take test shots of each light, until I finally forced myself to trust my meter. Final meter reading under the chin with all lights on gives me the combined exposure to start. One of the handiest and most time saving gadgets I have for studio lighting is the recently obtained Buff Cyber Commander (which is calibrated to the Seiko). It allows me to wireless adjust the lights individually, in groups, or incrementally all lights, from behind the camera, plus provides real time incident metering. It's so much less stressful then acting like a monkey swinging through the set trying adjust lights and not bump into anything.

I'm curious about your placement of the kicker on the fill side. I was taught to put it on the key side, but I have also tried it on the fill. The problem I've found with it on the fill is as in your example the creation of the odd highlights in the middle of what should be shadow, and the invariable light strip on the back of the neck or shoulder. With it on the key side, I generally find -1 to = with the key keeps the highlight on the hair, and the pesky odd ball stray highlights away, or if they do show it's consistent with the direction of the key light.

 

[mrca]

Braineack you are one of the others I was referring to as one of the rising stars on this site. Sorry didn't take the time to find your name but am getting ready for some surgery so kind of under the gun. Look at how far your work has progressed. Fantastic. It separates you from folks stuck with the light they are handed and allows you to tailor the light to your shots. I use the additive metering method so know the precise aperture I want to shoot at so turn on the fill first and set it at a delta that gives me the ratio I want at the target aperture. Then turn on the main with the fill on and power up til reading where the 2 lights over laps hits the target aperture. Both readings are dome pointed at camera. I do this instead of the source method where the meter at the subject is pointed at each light to get a desired delta. I can use the additive method outdoors where I can't turn off the sun when it is fill to take a main reading. Outdoors, Just take a fill reading then power the main from the overlap area to get the desired delta dome to camera on both as well.

 

[smoke665]

@mrca your method is interesting. I've been using the key as the basis to set my ratios (dome toward light) then powering up/ down everything as needed to get to my desired exposure. Being a creature of habit I've learned where I need to be approximately, to be very close on the combined reading. However I can see the benefit of doing it your way outside. I need to explore this more.

 

[Braineack]

I usually meter the main light and the fill individually to get the ratio I want (meter pointed towards light source), but ultimately will meter both (meter pointed towards camera) to get the final aperture.

 

[smoke665]

I usually meter the main light and the fill individually to get the ratio I want (meter pointed towards light source), but ultimately will meter both (meter pointed towards camera) to get the final aperture.

Same here except on the background. Derrel put me onto Dean Collins and his Chromozone method which uses Reflective readings.

 

[mrca]

The Chromazone dean collins method uses the delta between the subject incident and the bg reflective. Dean is perhaps my favorite lighting guy. I still use my plexi mirrors regularly. I can sit on my stool and adjust the bg through various shades of color or tones from pure white to grays to pure black by taking reflective readings from my stool and adjusting bg lights from the Einstein cyber commander on camera. Makes for rapid adjustments. Braineack that is the source method as opposed to the additive method that takes into consideration main and fill overlap and add to each other in the overlap. Unfortunately, outside can't turn off the sun to get individual readings. Sekonic meters do show percentage of light from the main flash versus ambient fill so knowing what ratio is your target percentage allows you to dial it in.

 

[smoke665]

@mrca are you using Paul Buff???? If you are we have the same controller, and I love that little gadget. The steps it saves, and the falls it prevents knocking over stuff I'm hooked to Alien Bees, which seem to be ample for me. On additive light, the overlap is a consideration regardless of if you're outside or inside isn't it? I think we're all on the same page that you have to account for the combined light. I haven't had time to try your method of starting at the fill and building from there, but I intend on it. I'm just not sure if I understand exactly what you're doing and the advantage over starting at the main/key, but once I start working with the lights maybe it will come to me.

 

[mrca]

Smoke, I love the Einsteins. Have 5 of them. I was hanging seamless alone raising one stand at a time going back and forth between them. Set the steps of my 6' ladder towards the sweep that was already formed and after doing the final raise, came down the ladder facing away from the ladder. For some reason thought I was on the bottom step but was on the third step just above the sweep thinking it was the floor, stepped off into space and realized what I had done as I executed a slow twisting fall. I didn't know where the floor was and was hoping the brand new 9' roll of paper didn't come down on me from 12 feet. The paper tore clean right against the roll. When I landed on the concrete floor I heard a snap and thought I had broken something, elbow, knee and wrist swelled but then I looked down and realized that sound was my pants unsnapping. I try to stay off ladders especially in a dark studio and the cyber commander does exactly that. With a boomed hair/shoulder light, if you lower it to adjust power then you have to re position it or get on a ladder and mine is against the ceiling in front of the chain drive. Plus the cyber commander allows me to fine tune all the lights from my tethered lap top. The advantage starting with the fill at about 2 stops under my target aperture, my preferred starting point slightly higher ration than 3:1, , is I get exactly the aperture I want. Find the delta you like and you nail it every time. Also, I can use the same additive metering method outdoors for consistancy. You only take 2 readings instead of 3, both dome pointed at camera. Fill measured on shadow side of face main off , combination main and fill on dome in front of cheek where they overlap, ie main side, and adjust the main power til you get the desired target aperture.

 

[JBPhotog]

Hmm, seems like there may be some confusion here. Indeed given the same modifier size, the closer to the subject the softer it is, the further away the harder it is. This is also connected to the inverse square law, which means the closer the light is the faster it falls off but the characteristics of the light does not change.

Your first shot and second shot shows the inverse square law in action. If you really want to see the quality of the light move it further to the right like 90 degrees, 2.8, 4 and 5.6 feet away, note the loss of one stop of light per distance backwards. Then compare, the results, the softest one will be the 2.8 foot shot every time in every scenario, you can’t cheat physics.

 

[smoke665]

Hmm, seems like there may be some confusion her

No confusion on my part. This has already been discussed above. The softness or hardness of a light is defined by the transition or gradation of the shadow edge. Because the falloff is faster due to the increased relative size of the light up close, that transition is smoother. My example shows there are other things to consider, first is the surface area illuminated by the same light (doubling distance will increase surface area by 4x) and second the depth of the light. Increasing the depth of the light eliminates the shadow all together. What was significant about this to me was the easing of the surface texture, especially on the shadow side.

My unscientific method I'm sure left much to be discussed. Feel free to construct your own example and post, as I personally find these types discussion extremely helpful.

 

[ORourkeK]

Thanks for the examples @smoke665. I love these types of threads.