Aperture question newb style!

[Wisconsin_Bob]

I apologize in advance for this terribly newbish question. If you have a constant aperture lens, is it possible to decrease the aperture (i.e. on the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L, can I bump it up to f/4 or f/5.6)?

 

[Offbeat]

Yes, up to f/22 i think maybe more.

 

[alabama1980]

Yes, up to f/22 i think maybe more.

Not trying to hijack the thread...but can you explain that a little?

How do you get f/22 out of a fixed app lens?

 

[Mystwalker]

I think I got it to f/32 while messing with "M"anual mode.

 

[evo5gsr]

The minimum aperture depends on the camera, IIRC.

 

[reconstyle]

Not trying to hijack the thread...but can you explain that a little?

How do you get f/22 out of a fixed app lens?

It's not necessarily fixed...

On a lot of the zoom lenses the aperture will be smaller at the long end of the lens. Such as the kit lenses for the d40.XT. They are 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6. But you can still get up to like f/22 with them


With the 70-200 f2.8L you can obviously get 2.8 at 70 and 200, but you can get a smaller app as well

 

[Socrates]

Not trying to hijack the thread...but can you explain that a little?

How do you get f/22 out of a fixed app lens?

There is no such thing as a "fixed aperture lens." All lenses are identified by their largest aperture (smallest f-number). Zoom lenses typically have two apertures indicated, the largest aperture at minimum zoom and the largest aperture at maximum zoom. In any event, the lens can always be stopped down from the largest aperture. The question is how far can it be stopped down. Some to f/16, some to f/22 and some to f/32, a lot depends on the maximum aperture.

 

[Battou]

There is no such thing as a "fixed aperture lens." All lenses are identified by their largest aperture (smallest f-number). Zoom lenses typically have two apertures indicated, the largest aperture at minimum zoom and the largest aperture at maximum zoom. In any event, the lens can always be stopped down from the largest aperture. The question is how far can it be stopped down. Some to f/16, some to f/22 and some to f/32, a lot depends on the maximum aperture.

Actually yes, there are, just not in modern production or use to my knowledge.

 

[Helen B]

Not trying to hijack the thread...but can you explain that a little?

How do you get f/22 out of a fixed app lens?

It does sound wrong, and 'constant aperture' might be a better term. Fixed aperture used to mean fixed aperture. Now that fixed aperture doesn't mean fixed aperture, what do we call fixed aperture lenses? (Later edit, having read the recent posts: Fixed aperture lenses do exist, they are still manufactured, and they are quite common. There is no need for an adjustable aperture in many applications.)

Constant aperture zooms hold their f-number as the focal length is changed, so if you set f/4 at the wide end then zoom in you will still have f/4 at the long end. You can still change the aperture: the lens still has adjustable aperture blades.

Remember that the f-number (which can be written as 'f/') is the focal length of the lens divided by the diameter of the entrance pupil, not the physical diameter of the aperture. The entrance pupil is the image of the aperture blades (I'll call the physical aperture the iris) you see when looking through the front of the lens - ie the image of the iris formed by the lens elements in front of it. It can be magnified or reduced.

As the lens zooms, the magnification of the iris will change. Lens designers can arrange things so that the magnification of the iris changes in proportion to the focal length of the lens, so that the ratio of focal length to entrance pupil diameter stays constant even though the diameter of the iris itself stays the same.

If you think about an 18 mm to 55 mm f/3.5 to f/5.6 zoom, the entrance pupil diameter must be 18/3.5 = 5.1 mm when the lens is wide open at 18 mm and 55/5.6 = 9.8 mm when the lens is wide open at 55 mm. The diameter of the iris has not changed, only its magnification. To maintain a constant aperture, the entrance pupil diameter would have to be magnified to 55/3.5 = 16 mm at 55 mm.

Best,
Helen

 

[Battou]

It does sound wrong, and 'constant aperture' might be a better term. Fixed aperture used to mean fixed aperture. Now that fixed aperture doesn't mean fixed aperture, what do we call fixed aperture lenses?

Constant aperture zooms hold their f-number as the focal length is changed, so if you set f/4 at the wide end then zoom in you will still have f/4 at the long end. You can still change the aperture: the lens still has adjustable aperture blades.

Remember that the f-number (which can be written as 'f/') is the focal length of the lens divided by the diameter of the entrance pupil. The entrance pupil is the image of the aperture blades (I'll call the physical aperture the iris) you see when looking through the front of the lens - ie the image of the iris formed by the lens elements in front of it. It can be magnified or reduced.

As the lens zooms, the magnification of the iris will change. Lens designers can arrange things so that the magnification of the iris changes in proportion to the focal length of the lens, so that the ratio of focal length to entrance pupil diameter stays constant even though the diameter of the iris itself stays the same.

If you think about an 18 mm to 55 mm f/3.5 to f/5.6 zoom, the entrance pupil diameter must be 18/3.5 = 5.1 mm when the lens is wide open at 18 mm and 55/5.6 = 9.8 mm when the lens is wide open at 55 mm. The diameter of the iris has not changed, only its magnification. To maintain a constant aperture, the entrance pupil diameter would have to be magnified to 55/3.5 = 16 mm at 55 mm.

Best,
Helen

That explains why this whole thread confused the tar out of me.

 

[Socrates]

Actually yes, there are, just not in modern production or use to my knowledge.

Examples, please.

 

[Battou]

Examples, please.

aprature on any box camera is fixed. more reasent boxcameras had some adjustment to them but that was minimal at best. Still nothing more than a hole drilled in a metal plate.

 

[Helen B]

Examples, please.

Catadioptric (mirror) lenses, fax machines, photocopiers, scanners, telescopes and spotting scopes, microscopes...

 

[alabama1980]

wow...i think of all the things i have learned about photography in the past few years, things like this serve the best lesson....i have a LOT to learn....

thanks for the detailed explanation...when i get my slr there are some shots that i want that i know will require a small app, so i was curious why it seemed difficult to find a lens with a high f-number listed....

i feel like such a noob now...lmao!

 

[brileyphotog]

Examples, please.

The older Holga's had only one fixed aperture, I believe. Now most of them have two - "sunny" and "cloudy."