Craig's list Chimes in on photo market

[craig]

Not sure how funny that is. It does put what I have said into a new light. Maybe this is what is happening to all industries? Capitalism and all that fun stuff? I am the first to admit that I only know of photography. Are all fields being undercut because of current economic conditions?

Love & Bass

 

[MarcusM]

Not sure how funny that is.

I didn't mean that literally.

It does put what I have said into a new light. Maybe this is what is happening to all industries? Capitalism and all that fun stuff? I am the first to admit that I only know of photography. Are all fields being undercut because of current economic conditions?

Love & Bass

 

[~Stella~]

Not sure how funny that is. It does put what I have said into a new light. Maybe this is what is happening to all industries? Capitalism and all that fun stuff? I am the first to admit that I only know of photography. Are all fields being undercut because of current economic conditions?

Love & Bass

I meant it to be funny, but it's also not untrue. And likely nothing new in any industry. I think people try to get more for less no matter the "product" being sold. Craigslist and the internet have made that more obvious to onlookers, though, as well as giving the bargainhunters a broader and more public search platform.

Overwhelmingly, people will get what they pay for. For the most part, these offers are not taking away from professionals; if they couldn't find someone to do it for cheap, I sincerely doubt they would pay full price anyway.

 

[craig]

Point well taken, but if enough people expect a lower price will that bring down the price of the market in general? Does that make sense? I start running into trouble when I do not understand something.

Love & Bass

 

[MarcusM]

I meant it to be funny, but it's also not untrue. And likely nothing new in any industry. I think people try to get more for less no matter the "product" being sold....

Overwhelmingly, people will get what they pay for.

Ok, hope this isn't treading into "forbidden forum territory", but this is so deeply embedded in our culture. We (in the U.S. specifically) have been conditioned to seek out the cheapest product/service out there, often at the expense of safety and quality.

This is so obvious with all the cheap crap we get from China. I always love hearing the "free-market capitalists" tout the free market - when really it is the U.S. corporations exploiting slave labor to its own benefit in order to make the CEOs and their politician buddies rich...Ooops, I'll stop now.

 

[~Stella~]

Point well taken, but if enough people expect a lower price will that bring down the price of the market in general? Does that make sense? I start running into trouble when I do not understand something.

Love & Bass

Joe Shmoe can't run out and buy a law degree over the weekend like you can a digital camera, but nor can you purchase the experience and the talent that comes with being a true professional in the photography field. I would hope that people would recognize the talent of the photography professional and be willing to pay for quality, but I don't know the real answer.

 

[craig]

I am not sure of the real answer either. People that I deal with need quality. I think they are finding harder to find with the influx of photographers in the field.

)'(

 

[~Stella~]

People that I deal with need quality. I think they are finding harder to find with the influx of photographers in the field.

Fortunate for them, they have you, no?

 

[RyanLilly]

Joe Shmoe can't run out and buy a law degree over the weekend like you can a digital camera, but nor can you purchase the experience and the talent that comes with being a true professional in the photography field. I would hope that people would recognize the talent of the photography professional and be willing to pay for quality, but I don't know the real answer.

The one problem, is that I may know nothing about the law, but there's a degree on your wall, So I guess thats good enough to satisfy me. I know nothing about photograph, bet you have a really fancy looking camera. well I guess thats good enough for me.

A degree is tangible, cameras and gear are tangible, but talent and experience are a little more difficult to see, if you don't know what to look for.

 

[Senor Hound]

Joe Shmoe can't run out and buy a law degree over the weekend like you can a digital camera, but nor can you purchase the experience and the talent that comes with being a true professional in the photography field. I would hope that people would recognize the talent of the photography professional and be willing to pay for quality, but I don't know the real answer.

Plus, with a lawyer, its illegal for someone to play the role of a lawyer who hasn't passed the bar in that state. There is an advantage to being in the profession that gets to make 90% of the rules... I'm not saying you don't feel the heat of oversupply, but at least there are some legal hoops to jump through.

This sort of stuff occurs in industries that double as a hobby. I read on a pilot forum that a guy posted a job for a Captain. He had over 60 responses, some of the applicants having over 5000 hours flying. But he had offers from some of the lesser experienced pilots to fly FOR FREE just for the experience! And this was a full-time job, not something you could do for a few hours a week.

And undercutting isn't bad for the market, its just bad for suppliers. The market is shifting, and although it may be temporary, we all need to accept this. A bad photographer is still a photographer. It reminds me of a joke:

Q: What do you call the guy who graduated last in his class at med school?

A: Doctor

 

[Garbz]

I admit I did take photos for a restaurant once in exachange for a meal. But the meal was reeeeaaaaly good. And I was drunk out of my mind and had the camera with some friends and I celebrating a birthday. I'm surprised I managed to negotiate the food out of the owner lol.

 

[MarcusM]

Plus, with a lawyer, its illegal for someone to play the role of a lawyer who hasn't passed the bar in that state. There is an advantage to being in the profession that gets to make 90% of the rules...

Lawyers don't make the laws...they interpret them. At least in theory.

 

[Mystwalker]

Ok, hope this isn't treading into "forbidden forum territory", but this is so deeply embedded in our culture. We (in the U.S. specifically) have been conditioned to seek out the cheapest product/service out there, often at the expense of safety and quality.

This is so obvious with all the cheap crap we get from China. I always love hearing the "free-market capitalists" tout the free market - when really it is the U.S. corporations exploiting slave labor to its own benefit in order to make the CEOs and their politician buddies rich...Ooops, I'll stop now.

I doubt it is a "US value".
Only an idiot pays $10 when something similar is available for $5.

I prefer Canon lens to $50 Phoenix 1600mm lens. But I have no probs wearing $20 tennis shoes from Walmart instead of $160 Nike Air Jordans. Only people who can afford to complain about "exploitive corporations" are celebrities making millions.

As a "consumer" you are free to not partake of offerings from corporations who "exploit slave labor ...", but I will bet you that you will be in the minority.

As for the C-List offers ... I think the person responding just give photographers a bad image - I do not count myself in this category. No sane person will offer to "over-pay" you. I'm not even sure they will even make a "fair offer". It is up to you to "accept" or counter-offer. Going off on a rant isn't going to stop that person from posting, and I doubt it will stop people from accepting offer. I'm not sure of sanity of the photographer who thinks "SPLITTING" commission is "peanuts". Standard commission is ~6% to agency ... maybe 2% to agent. Avg house is like what, $125K? In CA, it's like $400K? Splitting even 2% is HUGE, and that is when agent works for an agency. If not, 6% all goes to agent.

Same for the $10 real estate offer - 4 shots per house - $40/house - not bad for a high school kid with a P&S. Not sure how much McDonalds pay nowadays, I doubt it's $40 for maybe 10-15mins of work?

 

[Senor Hound]

Lawyers don't make the laws...they interpret them. At least in theory.

I was implying that most lawmakers (congress, parliament, whatever its called in your neck of the woods) are lawyers themselves. I'm sorry I didn't make this clear (you can't read my mind )

 

[Jedo_03]

Quote[Same for the $10 real estate offer - 4 shots per house - $40/house - not bad for a high school kid with a P&S.]

Nay Nay...
The offer was $10 per PROPERTY - $2.50 per shot...

Methinks though - $2.50 per shot is 500% better than the income per shot from Microstock sites... ($0.50c per sale)
8 hours p day / 5 days p week / 15min p property = $1600 p week:
electric bike - recharge while yr having brunch at McDonalds

Yeah - Yeah... you're gonna say... only if there's the volume and consistency to provide 8 hrs p day / 5 days p week... But is the volume and consistency any better for Pro Photographers..???

I see it both ways...
To those who believe that it's only photographers who are being undercut / exploited - then you are ignoring news reportage of millions of people employed in sweat-shops, some providing high-profile goods to the western economy...
In my back yard, just this week, a local guy with a clothes manufacturing business in his rear shed, employing over 30 NES immigrants at $3 an hour, making sport shirts for big local outlets that were selling at $90 - $150 per garment...
Exploitation by the business man: an income for the immigrants.
The businessman will be charged with exploitation.
In my back yard, a local photographer shooting weddings, minimum price $1500 for 6 hours onsite, employing an assistant for $30 a wedding, $5 an hour, shooting over 300 images: assistant has no rights to any of the images. Exploitation by the Photographer: an income for the assistant.
Photographer is doing the assistant a favour.
In my back yard, a 58 year old man with EtOH-induced cerebral atrophy causing lower limb weakness, not eligible for welfare or pension, collects aluminium drink cans from garbage bins at the local shopping mall, barely able to walk, has a scrap shopping trolley with arm extensions welded to it that he leans on as a walking frame, get's $0.05c p can at the recycle depot, told me he can sometimes get 20 cans in a hour (he needs to collect 100 cans to earn $5), average earnings= $1 p hour
Exploitation by mankind: an income for of the elderly /disabled.
Mankind will not be held responsible...
I wonder... as we wipe the fingersmudges from our prosumer camera bodies... and carefully clean the expensive glass of our L lenses... and gaze into the blackness of our high contrast, wide screen, calibrated monitors, with a bellyfull of garlic prawn and chardonnay, in our heated / air conditioned homes, with our well-schooled kids safely tucked into their warm beds... I wonder... Do we really begrudge those less-well-off than us the opportunity to earn a crumb..??
Or is it a capitalistic / materialistic case of:
"Totus pro uno, igitur mingete procul" (Latin)
(translation available on request)
Jedo