Event photography: Best practices for getting paid to practice?

[Josh220]

Would you pay a mechanic if he says he can't guarantee he knows anything about your vehicle?

It depends. Did I go to his shop and ask for a repair estimate, or did he show up uninvited at my house?

Hahahaha good point. But he is not offering estimates, he is offering photo shoots. He wants to take people's money, and not have to worry about his ability as a photographer.

 

[wonkavision]

[deleted by user]

 

[Josh220]

Well I wish you luck in your approach, I do not wish to make this any more heated.

 

[Josh66]

Minus all the hyperbole, misunderstanding, and hostility, there seem to be two schools of thought as to how I (or anyone in my position) should proceed:

1. Be clear about what I offer and charge rates comparable to those offered by other photographers (presumably at least $100 an hour).

2. Work for free to build a portfolio, then charge.

The possibility of a third way is rejected by both sides. Is that correct?

Yeah, pretty much.

It sounds like you want the best of both - lots of money with no expectations.

You might be able to get away with it one or two times, but it won't last.

 

[Blank]

I'd like to shoot a dozen or more events in as risk-free (for the clients) an arrangement as possible while still getting paid.

I'm interested only in building a portfolio and confidence. I'd shoot friends and relatives for free, but I don't have any. So shooting other people's events saves me the trouble of recruiting models. Yet many photographers with less ability than I have do charge, and photographers with more ability may lose work if I work for free. So I have to charge something.

But, if I charge an hourly rate, I may be setting an expectation that I don't want to fulfill.

I don't want to guarantee good photos or cater to a client's tastes. I just want to take pictures for myself and get paid for it.

So I'm thinking a small fee for the day (cheaper than normal), and then I would make money on prints (comparable to pro rates) if the client likes them. No prints are included with the fee.

Another idea: Same as above, only set it up with a wedding planner or venue. They could take a percentage and include more photographers in the deal if they want.

Another idea: Work as a second for a busy photographer. They pay me a small fee for the day, and then split the money from any of my prints that sell.

Any other ideas?

I'd do this for a few months. After building a portfolio and confidence, I'd just tell people (roughly), "This is how I take pictures. If you don't like it, hire somebody else. I charge $X and don't guarantee anything."

Do you think it would be better to skip the complicated arrangements and go straight to, "I charge $X and don't guarantee anything"?

As a photographer (especially one expecting to be paid due for a service provided), you WILL be gauged off several, if not all of the following criteria:
A portfolio
A referral
A creditation
A competitive package or rate
A registered business

A potential client (willing to part with payment), will want to see bare minimum 2 of the 5 points mentioned. If this is not yet achievable, you will be hard pressed to get a nickel from anyone. This is not a critique of your ability, it is a common denominator of any door that is open for business.

As a person in business, expecting to return cost or profit, you are expected to meet satisfactory approval, off your paying client. That is why you got hired in the first place. Not wanting to fill an expectation but expecting for your client to pay is one of the most absurd business statements I think I have ever heard.

Obviously there is risk involved with any business and the word "guarantee" is not required in your presentation, but photographers are at the mercy of technology and we go to every shoot with backup's. There is no back up for unsatisfactory shots. You either take on a job you can handle, or you decline or wait until your skills are at a level you can complete with confidence. Not wanting to guarantee good photos just says your lacking ability in what your doing and not wanting to cater to the client's taste! (you better change your thought process on this one, best you ask the client what they want, then offer constructive suggestion if you see a different or better way, usually via a portfolio).

As for your last line, you are not generating any income with a business statement like that.

Here's my advice. Spend a year or two and put together a portfolio. Understand exactly what it takes to create and deliver a great photo for whatever genre you select. Set reachable goals for your progress and cut your business arrogance in quarters. Post your work in forums, thats where the real critics are, or, politely ask the editorial dept of your local paper, what you have to do to be considered for editorial freelance (they are also harsh critics). You need your work exposed for you to get a reality check.

It is a must that you go to any paid job as a photographer that you be able to deal with any condition and deliver shots as per specification, otherwise your business obituary will be written based on your efforts, not your customers expectations.

 

[Josh66]

You can build your portfolio this way, but you will have to pay the models.

There are a number of ways you could do this without paying models.

Agreed... Generally they will want some form of compensation though. Compensation does not necessarily have to be money. (It could be prints, for example.)

 

[KmH]

TFP or TFCD

 

[wonkavision]

[deleted by user]

 

[Josh66]

I guess it depends on the model and what they're looking to do.

Prints would be good because they would have to come back to you for reprints. They might see that as too costly though (maybe... ?). They will most likely want at least a few images on CD though - for use on MySpace, or whatever.

A CD would be good for them, but not really offer any future benefit for you.

Really, I think it all depends on what kind of license you give them with the files.
You would obviously retain the copyrights. I would assume that it's standard practice to give them license to have prints made with the CD, but I'm not sure.

That's something you'll need to have figured out and on paper ahead of time.


I would think a model release would be a must, but, like you said - the model may expect more in return for that.

 

[tirediron]

 

[Sachphotography]

I'd like to shoot a dozen or more events in as risk-free (for the clients) an arrangement as possible while still getting paid.

I'm interested only in building a portfolio and confidence. I'd shoot friends and relatives for free, but I don't have any. So shooting other people's events saves me the trouble of recruiting models. Yet many photographers with less ability than I have do charge, and photographers with more ability may lose work if I work for free. So I have to charge something.

But, if I charge an hourly rate, I may be setting an expectation that I don't want to fulfill.

I don't want to guarantee good photos or cater to a client's tastes. I just want to take pictures for myself and get paid for it.

So I'm thinking a small fee for the day (cheaper than normal), and then I would make money on prints (comparable to pro rates) if the client likes them. No prints are included with the fee.

Another idea: Same as above, only set it up with a wedding planner or venue. They could take a percentage and include more photographers in the deal if they want.

Another idea: Work as a second for a busy photographer. They pay me a small fee for the day, and then split the money from any of my prints that sell.

Any other ideas?

I'd do this for a few months. After building a portfolio and confidence, I'd just tell people (roughly), "This is how I take pictures. If you don't like it, hire somebody else. I charge $X and don't guarantee anything."

Do you think it would be better to skip the complicated arrangements and go straight to, "I charge $X and don't guarantee anything"?

Hey,
I think it is great that you would like to learn first. Most people just do it and either they happen to do a good job, they do a so so job but ignorant people who don't know better let them get away with it, or they do a crap job and the people who them get mad and life goes south. My advise would be for you to just get out there and shoot. If you are going to shoot an outside shoot; go to where you are going to be shooting and take pictures. Don't worry about the money at first. Just shoot. If you are wanting to do weddings, go to your church, or any for that matter and ask to shoot in there sanctuary. Use a friend for a model. Get practice learning how to shoot the different lighting setups. The key is to take so many pictures you do not want to take any more. But all seriousness aside. You need to learn how & build a portfolio first. Then and only then you can show you book to clients as proof of your talent and worth. Just work hard And take your time. Your business will build itself once you get it going. Good Luck

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Daniel Sach
Sachphotography Fine Art Photography The homepage of Daniel Sach and his photography Company

 

[dave196]

A wise man once told me (whilst I was on work experience shooting/carrying stuff at a wedding with him) that "The cream will rise to the top."
If you are really worth your food as a photographer, then take the plunge, get your work out there. Build a portfolio and if its good then you will get noticed, and start making money.
If there was a way you could make money as a photographer without having skill, then everyone would do it.

As for me, I contact event organisers, ask them to put me on the door list if I give them my photos at the end of the night.
I get about 2 "non paid jobs" a month this way, which helps me get cool shots for my portfolio, and also get my name out.

The other way you could go, is trust yourself, and start charging.
If you fail, you will earn little money.
If you do well, skys the limit.

OR, you could get qualified, which is always a bonus.

Just my 2c, good luck!

 

[a.rilley]

You should charge a base fee and then if you work for longer than a certain amount of time (ex. 3 hours) then you start charging hourly and then charge for however many prints they want (optional).

Basically all you really need to do, is find out what professional photographers are charging, and charge between what they are charging and what amateur photographers (the one's you mentioned) are charging. Easy right?

Edit: Build up a portfolio consisting of event shots (local bands, school plays, etc.), scenic shots, outdoor shots, seasonal shots, etc. The purpose of doing so would be to gain your potential client's trust, so they know that you are capable of taking great pictures. Another option would be to start out doing events for free until you build up a portfolio of what you have to offer your customers, that way there is less hesitation in their decision.

It's called an apprenticeship. You normally don't paid for them. Find a REALLY nice photographer and they MIGHT let you get in their way for free and you'll spend a good deal of the time fetching things. You will not find a wedding photographer who will split money on the prints they sell. I suppose you could try to do the "Give me your hard earned money even though I can't garauntee anything for it." approach. Good luck with that. It's like going to school, they don't pay you like an accountant until you are an accountant. Unfortunately, your expectations on this are completely unrealistic. You have to relize that you are doing something that a lot of people can do pretty well. You can't even garauntee anything. There is no value in that. Hell, I had to work as a journalist for NO MONEY for a year to get published.

That's not what an apprenticeship is, but you're thinking along the right lines. If you're working under a photographer as an apprentice you do get paid for it. What you're thinking of is an internship! Internships are much like apprenticeships.. but you don't get paid a dime until they offer you an actual position and are willing to pay you professionally. It's essentially what you've explained. :thumbup:

 

[McQueen278]

It's called an apprenticeship. You normally don't paid for them. Find a REALLY nice photographer and they MIGHT let you get in their way for free and you'll spend a good deal of the time fetching things. You will not find a wedding photographer who will split money on the prints they sell. I suppose you could try to do the "Give me your hard earned money even though I can't garauntee anything for it." approach. Good luck with that. It's like going to school, they don't pay you like an accountant until you are an accountant. Unfortunately, your expectations on this are completely unrealistic. You have to relize that you are doing something that a lot of people can do pretty well. You can't even garauntee anything. There is no value in that. Hell, I had to work as a journalist for NO MONEY for a year to get published.

That's not what an apprenticeship is, but you're thinking along the right lines. If you're working under a photographer as an apprentice you do get paid for it. What you're thinking of is an internship! Internships are much like apprenticeships.. but you don't get paid a dime until they offer you an actual position and are willing to pay you professionally. It's essentially what you've explained. :thumbup:

That's what we called it when I worked for a photographer for a little over a year with only occasional monetary compensation. My marketing internship right out of college was paid believe it or not. I'm not trying to pick a fight over the thesaurus here, far from it. I just wanted to highlight that anyone who is working in any industry has had a period of learning that they are usually only compensated for in experience.

As for making you angry, it's better for me tell you this and you get all hot under the collar sitting at your computer rather than you here this from someone working in the industry who you hope will let you work with them. The rest of this is just...

 

[McQueen278]

Oh and I read this to a friend at work we call, The FOG (you can figure out that acronym) who was a wedding photographer for 25 years and taught photography to surveillance specialists in the Army during the 60-70s. He said to thank you for giving an old man a good laugh.