Feedback and advice on a few shots?

[andrewdoeshair]

I met my friend's girlfriend for the first time a few weeks ago and within two minutes I was awkwardly trying to ask her if I could take her picture. She just seemed like a good subject to put in front of the lens while I'm learning. Her cheek bones and eyes are great, but she swears she's not photogenic. It seemed like a fun assignment to show her that she can be very photogenic. Today I got her into the studio and clumsily talked her through a few poses while I was fiddling with my beauty dish and reflector. I recently bought the Peter Hurley "art of the head shot" tutorial and watched through it once, but I need to watch it more closely again and then continue to try what he's teaching. The photos were taken using a 5Diii and a Rokinon 85mm F1.2, a 16" beauty dish on a little 200w/s strobe, then a 7" gridded reflector on another little strobe from above/behind her. For some of these shots I pulled the vibrance back then warmed up the white balance, and for some I used a mask to add some cayenne color to the skin. I tried a few with a white background, but I personally don't like the way that feels, I'm more about the darker backgrounds, so I couldn't get any shots I wanted to keep. Also I need to get another strobe to light it properly, I can't seem to hit the backdrop just right with one strobe to keep the falloff outside of my subject's silhouette. Regarding these darker shots that I kept, something I just picked up via youtube was turning on the blue indicators for BLACK in lightroom, and that was really helpful during editing.

Some of the things I've been wrestling with lately are skin tones (I edit them so far all over the place that nothing looks right anymore, even her actual skin tone as the camera saw it, which looked pretty good before any editing). Also with men I've been cranking up the clarity and sharpness on the face, but with women I've been dialing it back to make their skin smoother, but then I second guess whether I've helped her or made my image look a little out of focus. Do these look alright? On some of these images I ended up getting really specular highlights (see the first photo) and the more I tried working with them, the more I felt like I was making her look like a cartoon. Are these acceptable?

As I was taking these photos I was moving things around every few shots, just trying to study the trade offs (more reflector under chin, smoother skin, less reflector under chin, stronger jaw. Etc). This shoot, as with almost everything I do, was done for no other purpose than to practice all of this. Some day I'd love to be good enough to charge people for this. Any feedback, (hopefully constructive) criticism, or advice is really appreciated. What might you have done with her? I've also got a big soft box, but I haven't used it much because it's so large and cumbersome in my little studio. I think I should have given it a whirl today. Maybe that softball is the answer to my white backdrop problem...

 

[Derrel]

Wow, she has an incredibly shaped, contoured facial structure! Loads of natural contouring! It is late and I do not have too much to say. What you could have done is almost unlimited in scope, and I mean that seriously, not flippantly.

I dunno...personally I think the beauty dish has "lit up" her chest and facial planes in shot #1, to too high a degree...the light is harder than I like to see on a person with actual real contouring and shaping to the face, as opposed to makeup-created contouring of the face...she has an amazing facial structure, as shown in shot #2...most rare!

I would have loved to see just one, larger, softer, more-diffused and less-specular light source used on shot #1, along with more torso angle in relation to the lens axis, as in shot #2, with the less-squared shoulder line.

I think shot #2 has the key light too high up, not quite enough eye-sparkle from the key light.

Overall, I think the degree of skin highlights on her very shapely face are too specular for maximum beauty in color....these would make good B&W conversions, due to the character of the lighting, and the shape-revealing those somewhat specular highlights would create in a B&W conversion.

In shot #2, her lit-up back shoulder is a distraction from her amazing face and jaw line. I think the hair light accidentally was allowed to light up that shoulder. Speaking of hair light: I think it is too hot, too cool in color temperature, and too aggressive: I think a 7-inch light, being so small, needs a Speedotron mylar clip on diffuser, or two diffusers, added to the light, especially with bigger grids like 20-degree or 30-degree grids. Speedotron mylar diffusers will fit on other brands of 7-inch reflectors, and are a KEY 'secret' lighting tool for professional uses. A grid + diffuser changes the nature of the light to a high degree...I would buy at least two of these mylar diffuser flat discs!

I would consider these a test session. She's got a very unusual facial shape! Contrast shot 1 against shot 2...the shape and contouring of her face is revealed in one, but obscured in the other. Very interesting.

Personally, I am not a fan of the beauty dish. I think a small 24 x 24 or 30x20 softbopx or a 32-inch white interior reflecting umbrella would have just slayed with this model. I think the light is too specular for her. At least in color; but DO try these as B&W conversions, and you will see these come to amazing life.

 

[andrewdoeshair]

Derrel, can I just start text messaging you about all this stuff?

Thanks again and again for contributing to my growth.

I see what you mean about ALL of this, thanks for the perspective. Now, looking at both shots next to each other the squared shoulders look a bit, well, not as sexy. I see a haircut model regularly who always turns a little to the side then pulls her shoulders in like she's cold and I've recently (past few days) noticed that the lines it creates are a lot more interesting than having someone standing like she's waiting for a bus. Still I haven't put a ton of thought into shoulders except for a recent accident where the hair light spilled a little bit onto a model's shoulders and looked really nice. Tonight when I did this shoot I remembered that ahoulder light accident and deliberately used a wider grid to light the shoulders at the same time as the hair. What I did forget to do was (this is embarrassing) check the power on the hair/shoulder light, and it wasn't until editing that I found some blown out halos on her head. The shoot was kind of rushed because I don't know her yet so I didn't want to keep her locked up for hours, and I was mostly focusing on what I could do with the cheek bones and jaw since most people don't have them like she does.

I'm realizing that there is soooo much to think about for a shoot like this, but it's all right there in front of me each time, and it's not impossible for me to get to the point where I'm not overlooking little (or big) things. Last year I looked at this pursuit and assumed you either had the natural creativity to take a good photo or you didn't, and I didn't. I haven't been this bent on learning something in a long time. I was recently looking at photos I took 3 years ago, just playing with them in Lightroom, and I saw some bright daylight shots of a still subject at ISO3200 with 1/4000 shutter speed. I had no clue, I thought I was so cool shooting in manual but I was only ever adjusting the shutter. When I look at my bright or square shoulder here or the specular highlights on a face that has more than enough contours on it's own without such harsh light, it's like I'm making a mental note to drop my ISO next time I'm shooting outside. I've been booking about a shoot per week for the past few months, but I think I'm going to go into double time this summer. I need some practice. I hope you all don't mind me continuing to post a crap load in the future.

I'm going to have another go editing those and try them in black and white. Next time I do a shoot I'm forcing myself to use the soft box, I need that thing to click. I don't know why I'm so afraid of it.

 

[andrewdoeshair]

I have a (possibly dumb) question. In the very limited experience I've had watching people use beauty dishes, they seem to always have the thing just above their camera pointed down at the model, and they're always straight-on shots. Is this the one thing the BD is intended to do, or should I experiment with using it from the side a little bit?

 

[andrewdoeshair]

 

[tirediron]

I have a (possibly dumb) question. In the very limited experience I've had watching people use beauty dishes, they seem to always have the thing just above their camera pointed down at the model, and they're always straight-on shots. Is this the one thing the BD is intended to do, or should I experiment with using it from the side a little bit?

That is one thing, but not THE one thing that a BD does. A BD is a very versatile modifier and while butterfly /clamshell is where it's often used, it works great used off-axis, and on its own.

This image uses a 22" gridded BD as key and a background light. All the light on the subject comes from the beauty dish.

 

[Derrel]

The beauty dish is a tricky modifier to use compared with a larger-sized modifier. A 22-inch beauty dish is considered a "big one", while a 32-inch umbrella is considered a "small umbrella". To me, the issue with the BD is that it it might be "hot", like a silvered interior model, and it is always a "small" modifier, compared against say a 32 x 32 or 36x48 inch softbox.

Andrew, I think your exploration of photographic lighting is a marvelous example for everybody on TPF. You've tried so much, learned so much, done so much, and you have made good post after good post. There's always something interesting in your posts.

Can you beleive how gorgeous that lighting scheme looks in black and white!? Can you see the difference in the skin highlights in the B&W conversions, as opposed to the full color shots? WOW!

Using a beauty dish from on-axis and high up: throws the under-chin shadow directly under the chin, onto the neck, and creates the impression of a face that stands out. Smaller-diameter lights have long been used to throw a crisp, dark, under-chin shadow, which mnimics natural lighting, with a "high main light" ethos. Where the light is also controls the nose shadow; butterfly lighting/clamshell, Rembrandt, and Paramount/loop/modified loop lighting patterns, all three of those family of lighting patterns (all three families) use a different basic main light placement, to create different effects.

One issue with a 22-inch beauty dish is that if placed off-axis very far, it will not reflect itself in the subject's eyes, and will not create eye-sparkle through catchlights in the subject's eyes; this is why a bigger modifier looks different than a smaller modifier in many situations. I have a 22-inch beauty dish with a white mylar diffuser and a fabric diffuser....I seldom like to use it...I prefer a dull-interior 32-inch reflecting umbrella most of the time, over the beauty dish.

I am VERY impressed with your journey of discovery and your amazing dedication/application to the details of lighting. You have learned so,so much, in such a short time. You're now at a stage where you've gotten a baseline of practice and skill, and soon your learning will come in leaps and bounds!

What I did forget to do was (this is embarrassing) check the power on the hair/shoulder light, and it wasn't until editing that I found some blown out halos on her head. The shoot was kind of rushed because I don't know her yet so I didn't want to keep her locked up for hours, and I was mostly focusing on what I could do with the cheek bones and jaw since most people don't have them like she does.

We have all been there, allowing something to distract us from what we had originally intended to do/planned to do/hoped to do. You're not the first guy to forget to check a light's output power level! And yes, cheeks and jawline on that woman...wow....what a facial structure she has! Your B&W #2 above, gorgeous! I understand shooting fast, and letting something like a hairlight power level slide by...pretty common when using individual monolights or speedlights with fully independent power level settings, but very much uncommon if using a pack-and-head system where the B-channel output is always lower in power output than the A-channel lights are, or when working with certain pack and head system that have Assymetrical power distribution, and where there will always be low-power and high-power light outlets.

I personally look forward to your posts! Post away! And yes, you are correct, there will come a time when you will be able to make no mistakes, and will spot each and every issue as it comes up, and your photography technique will become very proficient. It's just like anything--practice builds proficiency. As to new tools...consider buying yourself a pair or even three of these! Speedotron 25525 Clip-on 7.0in Mylar Flash Diffuser

A pair of these, snapped onto that 7-inch light, would have tamed that hair light magnificiently!!!

 

[andrewdoeshair]

I didn't want to clutter up the forum with another thread for these, but here's a few after forcing myself to use the soft box for a day. Way better. I think the beauty dish might collect some dust for a few weeks. Thanks again for the advice. I just needed to get used to then sick of the beauty dish before getting motivated enough to really make the soft box work. I wish I had hit the shoulders on photo number two, so she wasn't just a floating head.

 

[andrewdoeshair]

Typo. I wish I had LIT the shoulders on photo number two.

 

[Derrel]

I thought you meant hit the shoulders, as in " hit them with light ".

Yeah...softboxes work pretty well. Softboxes really caught on in the mid- to late 1980's. I bought my first one, a 36 x 48 inch Chimera with my first Speredotron Brown Line 1600 W-s system back in 1986. Back then, many peple were making their own softboxes out of foam core board material! That was before the low-poriced, Made in China models hit the market. These days? There are tons of good MIC softboxers at great prices.

Yeah...beauty dish...I dunno...I think the name is better than the results it gives many times. The beauty dish has a fantastic name!