Full Frame SLRs...why or why not?

Discussion in 'Photography Beginners' Forum' started by Big, Jul 7, 2009.

  1. Big

    Big TPF Noob!

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    What is it about full frame DSLR cameras that make them "professional" over crop sensor cameras?:scratch: I mean, it may be dumb to say but couldn't you just stand a couple feet further back to get more in the shot (in some cases)? I have been using a crop sensor P&S for a few years now and never really considered it to be a problem. I have been looking at the Canon 50D and comparing it to the 5D Mark II. For one, I don't want to wait to save up all that extra money when I can hardly wait to get one as it is. I would be doing mostly landscape (sunrise/sets), wildlife, macro and indoor shooting with low light on occasions. I know a full frame will handle low light better than a crop sensor due to less pixel density per sq. cm (I do my fair share of research!) but what makes it that much better than the 50D especially when the 50D seems to be a better choice for sports or action photography since it shoots 6.3 vs 3.9fps?
    Thanks -BIG
     
  2. NateS

    NateS TPF Noob!

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    It's not so much the crop factor as the size of the sensor itself. What makes a DSLR better than a point and shoot? The main thing (image quality wise) is the much larger sensor. The same principle applies.....a much bigger sensor is going to capture much more data. It will have better dynamic range, much better noise at all iso levels (especially high ISO)...a crop sensor will never capture the same high iso performance as full frame. People are shooting stuff on full frame in the neighborhood of 24,000 iso compared to crop sensors that usually max out at 3200-6400. Plus a D700 at iso 3200-6400 looks about as clean as a D90 (which itself is good for higher iso) at around 800.

    Edit: I don't know much about Canon's. All of what I said above was basically comparing a D3/D700 to a D90/D300....as Nikon full frame vs. crop is where my knowledge lies (and ends...lol).
     
  3. musicaleCA

    musicaleCA TPF Noob!

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    Nothing makes a camera "professional", other than being in the hands of a pro. There are pros out there who will use a crop sensor just to finagle more out of their lenses. I know that when I get a full-frame and start running around with two cameras around my neck when covering events, my 450D (crop) will be my telephoto (the equivalent of 400mm in a package that's lighter than my camera and 17-85? that just rocks), the full frame my wide.

    The right camera for the job is, dun dun dun, the right camera for the job. If that is your 50D because it shoots faster than an equivalently priced full-frame, then the 50D is better. Plain and simple.
     
  4. epp_b

    epp_b No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    A couple of points off the top of my head:

    • Insane ISO performance (the D700 is said to be completely noiseless at ISO 200 and still usable at ISO 25600).
    • You can still go rectilinearly wider than on crop frame. Sigma makes a 12mm lens that works on full frame.
    • More depth of field control
    • Less limited by diffraction at smaller apertures
    • Focal lengths work how God intended them to ;) (same as 35mm film)
    • Being naturally more expensive, they incorporate every advanced feature available.


    That being said, a full-frame DSLR is probably overkill for a first DSLR. I doubt you'll be sorry if you buy a crop-frame DSLR. Look at the 40D instead of the 50D. The 50D has sacrificed high-ISO performance for pointless resolution.
     
  5. kundalini

    kundalini Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Full Frame advantage: Build quality / material, weathersealing, additional features, ISO capabilities, the additional bloodflow to your testicles............

    Get what you can afford and start shooting sooner rather than later.

    I have two crop sensors and one full frame. If I want to go light, I take the baby. If I am shooting wildlife, I prefer the better crop sensor. For most everything else, I prefer the full frame..... cause I can. :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  6. camz

    camz No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Good point..

    well full frame SLR bodies are just more expensive because of the mechanics of it's assembly. But I don't believe that the word "PRO" automatically correlates full frame. I know some Pro Sport photographers who use the XXD series bodies because they have the 1.6x zoom factor for better close ups(taking advantage of more zoom)

    I think full frame correlates to "PRO" when it comes to shooting people such as events portraits and such(in my opinion atleast). This is to take advantage of the wide angle zoom/prime lenses that are maximized on full frame bodies.

    I personally love the full frame because it gives me an option to pan out when shooting group shots or panoramics. A friend who shoots sports prefers the 50D over the 1Ds because of the zoom factor(offcourse the IDs shoots 11fps).

    I think it depends on your application :D

    camz
    http://simplydashy.blogspot.com
     
  7. musicaleCA

    musicaleCA TPF Noob!

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    Okay, now that everyone's pointed out the pluses of full-frames, here are some downsides. You get more vignetting. And the corners of an image are a bit softer too. (All things being equal, the only difference being the sensor size.)

    And the "more DoF" thing is more of a myth. The tiny, tiny, itsy-bitsy, minuscule difference in DoF is nothing to be concerned with unless you're an engineer writing some sort of technical manual or thesis on camera sensors.
     
  8. Big

    Big TPF Noob!

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    I originally looked at the 40D but I loved the fact that the screen on the 50D had much more clarity (920,000dots vs 230,000). Also loved how the 50D had live view. I know the 40D has it too but I am a fan of not buying something with brand new technology...they usually need kinks worked out. I know you all will laugh at live view but If I am going to get a camera with it, I want it to work well. Either way, I am glad I didn't rush into buying the XSI I originally fell in love with. I held it once for the first time and it got lost in my hands. :lol:
    I would also love to buy something and learn how to use it versus, getting a simpler consumer slr and then need to upgrade soon because I am getting more advanced. Just my opinion. Nothing against you XSI users.
     
  9. kundalini

    kundalini Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Your response pertains to lenses, not sensors.
     
  10. HeY iTs ScOTtY

    HeY iTs ScOTtY TPF Noob!

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    with all that being said i just want to put it out there that i am willing to trade my d90 with anyone unhappy with their d3. flat out no strings. lol ;)
     
  11. tsaraleksi

    tsaraleksi TPF Noob!

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    Shooting crop and full frame sensors side by side, I will tell you that you are absolutely wrong on this point. There is a noticeable difference even between a 1.3x and 1.0x camera. I can shoot side by side comparisons if you really don't believe me.
     
  12. Samanax

    Samanax TPF Noob!

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    Three of my shooting buddies bought the 50D as an upgrade to their previous bodies (one 20D shooter and two 30D shooters) and used it for a short while and all three of them sold their 50D and bought either a 40D, a 5D or a 5D Mk II. I asked them what about the 50D they didn't care for and they all said theu were disappointed with the image quality (noisy at moderate ISO and the dynamic range wasn't what they expected) and they all had dust under the LCD cover (enough to really bug them). Based on what they told me I recently bought a 40D instead of the 50D.
    I know what you mean. I shot with a XTi for a year and a half. When I put the XTi side-by-side with my 40D and my 5D it really looks like a toy. I kept it so I have something small and light to shoot with when I don't want to carry around the bigger bodies. I don't regret shooting with the XTi though, I learned a lot with it.
    You would still have to learn how to use and shoot with a consumer grade DSLR the same you would with a prosumer DSLR. There are the basics to learn (exposure, understanding light, composition, learning to "see", etc...), learning how to shoot and then developing your own shooting style...this takes years. I heard it takes at least 7 years before you can consider yourself a "good" photographer. A common saying is "Your first 10,000 pictures will be your worst."
     

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7d crop could just stand further back

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digital full frame with 24000 iso

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full frame dlsr or not

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full frame sensor for indoor sports photography

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why full frame slr

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why not full frame