I truely need advise

[jenn2]

A couple of weeks ago I donated to a local chairty Pageant and I was invited to go take pictures of the event and then post them on my website. Since it was a public event I did not obtain a release form from the individual parents.
Well now I have one parent in particular lashing out at me for having her daughter's images on my site and demanding that I pull them off.
She proceeded to accuse me of exploiting her child....is she correct???
Should I have obtained a release form from each parent even though it was announced numerous times that I was there and that the images would be posted on my website???

 

[Gaerek]

I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not up on the laws, especially concerning states outside my own, but I think the real thing to discuss is, what are the purpose of the photos? Are you making money on your site? If so, that is a commercial use, and as far as I know, you would very likely want a release. If they would be considered more fine art, (even if you're selling) you wouldn't necessarily need a release. There are other people here who are more knowledgeable than me, but this is what I understand.

EDIT: I guess it would depend on the content also, perhaps. Are the photos in question just of this kid? Or is it like a group of kids? There's a lot to consider, and this is a very confusing area.

 

[Formatted]

The charity are in the wrong not you!

For them to use it in the way they have, it requires a model release form. If they are using it editorially then they do not.

 

[bigtwinky]

Other than it being announced, was the fact that the pictures would be displayed on a website written anywhere? On the back of a ticket, on a flyer,...?

Keep in mind that people are hypersensitive these days about their photos and their kids photos. While there are dangers out there, the media spins things in a way to make everyone paranoid about what is going on. Add to that the fact that people are all sue happen, makes people hypersensitive.

As stated, if your website is just a display of your work, no intention of selling, then there are no issues. If you use your website for commercial gain, then model releases are usually required.

As the photographer, it is up to you to either ensure that model releases are had or that the intent to publish is disclosed. Either do it yourself, or discuss this with the company to ensure they are aware and doing it. In the case that some frenzied parent wants to burn you at the stake, then you are kindly redirect them to the company in charge

 

[Sachphotography]

I would not fight with them. I would write a letter explaining things in detail and ask for their permission. If they say now just take them down. It is not the end of the world.

 

[jenn2]

Thanks for the feedback, each parent did receive material stating that I was there taking pictures and that I was going to post them on my website. Never were they told that I was selling them.
I even made sure to ask the organizers of the event if there is anyone I was not to photograph to which they said no.

Now I have this parent who yea is wanting to take legal action.

Her daughter also won a photo sesssion and 16x20 print from me and now I don't know what the correct procedure for this would be.

 

[jenn2]

I guess my question is what rights do I have if all I want is to show others my abilties. I am open to selling some of the images if a parent asks me to but under no circumstances are they on my site for that purpose. I have them there because it was something new I was trying and I wanted people to see.

 

[scorpion_tyr]

My understanding of the law is this. Once you press the shutter release you own the copyright to that image. You can't sell or make money off that image without a model release. As long as it was a public place you should be fine with just posting the picture on your website. Especially if the parents were handed printed material that stated you would do such. I suggest you explain to the parents that you're not making any money off the photograph. If they still want their daughter's image removed then it is up to you to decide if you want to take it down or not. If you really don't want to then remind the parent that he/she should read a little more carefully.

If your business depends on the opinions of your clients then you might just want to make them happy and take down the image.

Either way I would still offer the shoot that she won, make sure to explain to the parent very clearly your terms and conditions and have them sign a model release or photo agreement.

 

[bigtwinky]

If the parents received material that pictures are going to be taken and posted, then I would direct the parent in question to the organizers of the event and have them deal with it.

You were working for them, so the parent's beef is with them.

 

[ghpham]

If you don't have money to hire council, then I suggest you take down the picture as the parent requested. They may not win in court mind you, but do you really have the time and money to deal with this?

 

[Alan92RTTT]

If you don't have money to hire council, then I suggest you take down the picture as the parent requested. They may not win in court mind you, but do you really have the time and money to deal with this?

I think this is the best response.

While it sounds to me that your in the clear that will not stop the parents from causing you problems. its better to just remove the image and let it be.

 

[jenn2]

yeah I agree. I did remove them once I spoke to the parent, and I would have done so had she actually been up front with me instead of being bordeline hateful.

sigh.... however the commets she left on my facebook page although I deleted them many people still read them and that puts me in a bad light.
From now on I will simply require a release form, public event or not!!

 

[Big Mike]

My understanding of the law is this. Once you press the shutter release you own the copyright to that image. You can't sell or make money off that image without a model release.

That's the usual thinking...but I think I remember reading that it isn't actually the case, most of the time.
I think the article I read, said something along the lines of...as long as you took the photos legally (did not intrude on someone's right to 'reasonable expectation of privacy') then you are OK to sell it. Think of newspaper photographers, they certainly don't get a release from all the people they shoot...and they make money selling the photos to newspapers/media outlets etc.

I think that part of the issue, if they were going to sue you, is that they would have to prove damages. For example, are your photos causing the subject to loose any money? In this case, I'd say no. So they would have no grounds to sue you for money.

The issue of needing a release, may come into play if/when the images are published...where the publisher will want/need a release. We always hear that we (photographers) need a release to sell the images...but I think this article said that more accurately, we technically don't need the release, but that (reputable) publications just won't buy the image without one...so it's best to just get it when you can.

Ah...I have a link to the article. Model Releases

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Some things said are correct, some are wrong and some could be either depending on the situation. From what I understand, you are the end user of the images and that means you are the one who needs to make sure you are legal. Don't ever trust anyone who says "yes, go ahead and use them" unless it is a photo lawyer.

Someone mentioned the copyright... As the photographer you own the copyright but that has nothing to do with whether or not you can use them without a release.

There are a few cases in which you do not need a release. 1/ fine art photography. You print the shot, hang it in a gallery, or in your website, and sell it as a fine art print. You're good to go. 2/ News. Was the event news? Here is when the problems start. The charity may look at it as news but would a judge? Also, is your website a news website? And, by the way, is your website a fine art gallery?

Most people are going to be a lot nicer when it comes to charities but not all of them and, YOU are not the charity.

So a couple questions come to mind before really being able to answer your question: who are you? and, what his your website?

From your posts I gather you are a photographer and the website is your studio's which means it is neither a fine art nor a news website. And so I would say you are in the wrong. But, I am not a lawyer. I use one myself for my work because the law is not meant to be understood by most of us And I've never read any member here claiming to be one specialized in intellectual property law.

I suggest you join a professional organization so as to have access to lawyers at reduced rates or, at the very least, lawyers who know the subject.

So, yes, taking the photos of this child of you website is your best bet. I would also email the mom (or even better call her) explaining the mix up. You are brand new to this; the charity told you could use the photos; you are very, very sorry about the mix up; you have taken down the offending images; and, last but not least, you hope this will not affect the free session that her child won. Make sure they know you are not pissed at them.

And you know what, you may get yourself a good customer out of this mess. It's happened before and I sure hope it works out nicely for you. Let us know.

 

[jenn2]

The images are down, all of them. When I signed up for this pageant the purpose was to take the images and then just donate a CD to the Pagean coordinators for use for their websites, but somehow it was announced that the images would be on my website for parents to view.
My only purpose then was for the parents and any other pageant moms to see that I can photograph pageants and so forth.
I've spoken to the parent and try as I may, she is just too difficult. I apologized repeatedly, I informed her that spoken to the cordinators and that they had all made sure that everyone knew I was there and where the images would be.
She didn't want to listen, infact she hung up on me...the images are down and I hope nothing more comes of this.
I just got an email from the pageant director telling me how sorry she is for all this and that she has gotten so many calls from parents wanting to take legal action and so forth...
I guess its just a matter of waiting.