I'm a no-bull**** person...(rant)

[480sparky]

I teach design drafting class. The entire class didn't know they had to use a pair of compasses to draw circles.

Some asked me,"If my compasses only has an attachment for pencils and I want to draw with a pen, what should I do?"
True story. Yes it's fitting because it's scary, like Halloween scary.

I recall reading somewhere a guy was teaching a class on photography and a student asked if it was worthwhile to buy a camera that could take photos in the portrait orientation. :er:

 

[tirediron]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I would submit that the problem really lies with you. The students feel that you're the type of person who will accomodate these behaviours. I would suggest at the start of your next class, lay out the rules and adhere to them. Those who wish to play their own reindeer games can do it elsewhere, and if they don't receive a high enough mark. Oh well...[/COLOR]

First of all, this is college, not elementary school. When I was talking about this with a friend and he's all about compassion and patience, telling me to make things clear and stuff. The problem is, since when is eating in class ok? High school? Middle school? Elementary school? Why should I even have to lay these rules out? I did tell them the rules each time, but they surprise me with more ridiculous behaviors. It's like a never ending game, and one you can't win. If I have to treat them like high school or elementary school kids, then they should just go back to high school or elementary school.

Simply giving Fs like I don't give a crap is like treating the people who treated you badly the same way. It's childish and it doesn't help. For each assignment, I give them a score (we do score system here) and a comment on what the student needs to improve on. It's the next best thing I can do other than a in-person critique because there's no time in class for this. It gets really tiring and disheartening when most of them are bad simply because they don't practice the simple instructions that I gave.

Some do improve, but not enough to make me feel like I am not wasting my time.

It certainly sounds like elementary school to me... just sayin'... seriously though; a few 'F's (or however your institution indicates a failing grade) is NOT an indication that you don't care, it's an indication that they haven't met the standard, and failing to follow the rules is failing to meet the standard. Part of a person's education is about life, so in addition to teaching them drafting, you're teaching them about life. Life is NOT easy, and when tehy f*** up, they need to know that they're going to pay the piper and this is as good a place as any for them to learn. As for eating in class, I'm sure that is okay in some places, since it's not in yours, make that clear to all of them, and enforce it. There is NO POINT in having rules where there is no consequence for failing to follow them.

 

[molested_cow]

Before we start looking elsewhere, look at the questions being asked here and how people scramble to provide answers that are easily found in the manual or elsewhere.
If we are party to this entitlement, it is a bit hypocritical to condemn it elsewhere and encourage it here.

Lew, I love Google and use it all the time. In fact, the main reason why I carry a smart phone is so I can google the questions in my head on the go.

Can you imagine I had to enlighten my students with "what to google", something which I already told them about?

 

[runnah]

I remember when you had to be intelligent to get into college.

 

[limr]

I don't mean to sound rude, but I would submit that the problem really lies with you. The students feel that you're the type of person who will accomodate these behaviours. I would suggest at the start of your next class, lay out the rules and adhere to them. Those who wish to play their own reindeer games can do it elsewhere, and if they don't receive a high enough mark. Oh well...

With all due respect, I think this is incorrect.

I teach college as well. This bs happens no matter what kind of teacher you are. If you are strict, the bs does settle down a little bit, but you can't fight every single battle every day. Well, not if you want to last more than one semester. And even after most of it settles down, you're still left with piles of it anyway.

I honestly don't care if students are eating in class as long as they are still paying attention and they're not making any gross noises or leaving a mess. I am clear about this from the start.

For the other stuff about assignments and sloppy work - yup, that's how it is these days. And yes, I hand back work ungraded if it's not to my standard. Crappy work is rewarded with a low or failing grade (depending on how crappy). I just handed back two failing grades last night without a qualm. Oh, make that three. One student plagiarized. In my classes, the first time someone plagiarizes, I talk to them and see how they react. If they get immediately embarrassed, I usually give them another chance. They still fail that paper, but if they are good for the rest of the semester, I'll give them a chance to rewrite it. If the student, however, tries to deny it, then they get a 0 for the paper, and they are warned that the next little hint of the same will result in failing the class and being reported to the college. I can give you a long list of students who have failed my classes and been reported to the college.

But here's the thing. They always try. They always start out trying to get away with sloppy work, disrespectful behavior, and attitude. It takes most of them several weeks to really get the hint that they shouldn't f*** around if they want to pass my class. Some of them finally get it and start improving. Others finally get it and withdraw. Still others don't ever get it and end up with an F.

There's only so much you can do. I might win the battle of the cell phones and the double-spaced typed essays with correct heading (THAT takes at least half the semester) and no-extensions, no-late-papers, but I have to accept the fact that some of them will always forget to capitalize their names, some will always leave at least one 'u' instead of 'you' in an essay, some will always come in late... These are not the ones that are getting the good grades in class, mind you, but they are at least doing the rest of their work and they have a good enough attitude in class participation to pass the class.

I give very few A grades, and in almost 10 years of teaching at this college, I've only been asked about grades a handful of times, almost all of them about why they 'only' got a B+ instead of an A. "Because you earned a B+" is always my response. "But I was there every day and worked really hard!" is their argument. "So did the C student who sat next to you. I'm not grading your attendance and effort. I'm grading your performance." That's usually the end of the discussion.

OP, may I offer some suggestions? Don't smile for the first month of class. It's much much easier to be a dick at the beginning and then loosen up a little later on after they already respect your rules. It's impossible to go the opposite way, however.

 

[MK3Brent]

Simply giving Fs like I don't give a crap is like treating the people who treated you badly the same way. It's childish and it doesn't help.

Who said to do that?

It's really as simple as "You were supposed to do X, and you didn't.. therefore you will not earn the associated marks."

Listen, I get it... The whole educational system in the states is one big bureaucratic game... Teachers here are forced to curve grades in order to inflate their class averages so heaven forbid the counties/parents complain that their $XX,XXX / year tuition is being wasted. Meanwhile, we graduate flocks of these self righteous know-nothings that hop around ruining one business after the next.

 

[molested_cow]

I completely understand your frustration. So, my first thought is that there is some sort of disconnect somewhere. I think back to some of my most memorable professors, and try to recall why they were so profound to me. It had nothing to do with the subject matter, but it was the way that they connected with me. They demanded respect, and I most certainly gave it right back ten fold. I think some of the rough exteriors we see in this generation is really only one, thin layer deep. We just have to dig down a layer to get to the good stuff.

When I was in college, the professors only showed up during class.

Here we sit through the whole day and spend a good amount of time with the students. Seriously, with the amount of time I spend on consultation with my students, I can probably demand alimony from their parents.

The ideal situation is, I give them 65%, they can push it to 80% with some initiative, and then with a bit of polishing they can get to 90% with a little more help.
Right now, I have no choice but to give them 85%, and they come back the next day at 60%. Literally 1 step forward, 3 steps backwards. Why? They think they can out smart themselves, choose not to do as I said and come back stuck at their own brilliant idea.

 

[molested_cow]

First of all, sorry to bring all this negativity here, but I've been pretty damn frustrated lately, need to see if I am the one who's not thinking straight.

I do fail them. I am not easy on grades. Guess what? They don't seem to care. The system here makes it hard to kick a student out because of poor performance. I remember when I was in college, 3 no-shows means you get kicked out of the class. Here, one of my students hasn't showed up for two months without official leave notice. Nothing's happening to him. Our tuition fee is peanuts compared to what I had to pay when I went to school in the US. The parents pay for their tuition fee here. They don't feel it, college is easy to get into. To think that these are the "cream of the crop" because they are all the top scorers in the national exam, to think that they are supposed to be the smartest and brightest, the hope of the country's future.... I really should be considering immigration.

 

[limr]

runnah, I am one year younger than you.

Yes that's what frustrates me. All these years of educational resources spent on these snobs and they are "unusable".
To be fair, the education system here has failed miserably, and they just implemented a "new system reform" that is even worse than the last one.

We had an intern how was in their senior year and they DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO USE MICROSOFT WORD. I mean how does that happen. Just lazy and entitled.

Honestly the kids in the "blue-collar" vocations are 100x better than the "professional" fields. I have 18 year old kids who do the construction type jobs that bust their asses 110% of the time and for the most part are sharper than most college grads.

I teach at a community college and students of all kinds. The ones from the richer school districts who were too lazy or not smart enough to get into a 'good' college come to my school so they can supposedly clean up their act and then transfer to a 4-year school. They are certainly the ones who are most likely to feel entitled, to feel like they could charm their way into a good grade, or to feel like sitting in the back of class stoned out of their minds should count as 'particitpation.'

The best students I've ever taught? Marines and ex-cons. They're not often the ones turning in the highest quality work - they're not dumb but not the smartest in the class, in other words - but they are unfailingly the hardest workers who have the most respectful attitudes for me and for their own work.

I once said that I'd rather have a classroom full of Marines any day of the week. Then, right after I said that, I realized how it sounded

 

[runnah]

What country are you in?

 

[molested_cow]

Taiwan

 

[runnah]

Taiwan

Wow from they way you described it I would have thought for sure that you were in the states. I didn't think Taiwan would have the same "american" issues.

 

[runnah]

I once said that I'd rather have a classroom full of Marines any day of the week. Then, right after I said that, I realized how it sounded

Would you enforce a no shirts rule?

 

[limr]

I once said that I'd rather have a classroom full of Marines any day of the week. Then, right after I said that, I realized how it sounded

Would you enforce a no shirts rule?

You know it.

 

[molested_cow]

Taiwan

Wow from they way you described it I would have thought for sure that you were in the states. I didn't think Taiwan would have the same "american" issues.

The main problem with Taiwan's education is that the central government controls EVERYTHING right to the tiniest details, even for private schools. And the REAL problem is that these policies are set by dumbass politicans and officials who are not professional educators. They may have a degree in education, but they are so disconnected from what the society demands from education, and they mostly make policies based on "which ever way to avoid liability". We have a saying to describe these civil servants - " The less you do, the fewer mistakes you make". And not only do they not take initiatives, they make it impossible for us to take the right initiatives.

They make it sound justified to use "It's never been done before" as a reason to turn down suggestions. Really, it's an acceptable reason here.