iphone5s vs mirrorless? ( question )

[brunerww]

Before you pull the trigger, check out this link.

Canon EOS M Review - Watch CNET's Video Review

Ron - That review may be a little dated. Looks like Lori shot it before the price came down $300, before the firmware update that increased still and video autofocus speed (2.0.2), before the availability of the new 11-22mm EF-M lens, before the price reduction on the OEM EF to EF-M adapter from $199 to $120 and certainly before the introduction of the $60 third party adapter.

In my view, the value proposition for this camera has changed significantly in the last few months. At around $600, with a $200 adapter, I recommended strongly against it - but at around $330, with a $60 adapter, it has become a great backup body for Canon shooters.

Cheers,

Bill

 

[Jixr]

You started this with asking whether or not an iPhone would be an acceptable replacement for a camera... and now you're worried about older model cameras and startup times being a problem?

I understand, my main issue with some of the mirrorless systems, is for me to justify it, it needs to be faster to use than my phone.
If it takes me 2 seconds to open the camera app on my phone, I don't see the point in a pocket camera that is considerably slower to use.

Since i'm looking for a small cam to have on me all the time, it needs to be as fast to use as my iphone, if its slow to turn on and take a picture, I might as well just
keep using my iphone.

I'm still really really really really looking at the pentax q7, though as far as the Canon M goes, there is a used one in my area with the 22mm prime for $275, i've not used one personally ( the cam store returned them all to cannon because they were crap ) and even with the price drops, the firmware updates, and such, i'm still a bit worried.

 

[brunerww]

...my main issue with some of the mirrorless systems, is for me to justify it, it needs to be faster to use than my phone.
If it takes me 2 seconds to open the camera app on my phone, I don't see the point in a pocket camera that is considerably slower to use.

Since i'm looking for a small cam to have on me all the time, it needs to be as fast to use as my iphone, if its slow to turn on and take a picture, I might as well just
keep using my iphone.

I'm still really really really really looking at the pentax q7, though as far as the Canon M goes, there is a used one in my area with the 22mm prime for $275, i've not used one personally ( the cam store returned them all to cannon because they were crap ) and even with the price drops, the firmware updates, and such, i'm still a bit worried.

Hi Jixr - Pentax Q power on to first shot is pretty slow at ~3.7 seconds (please see Pentax Q Review - Performance) - while EOS M power on to first shot is a full second faster at ~2.7 seconds (please see Canon EOS M Review - Performance)

If you want an even faster pocketable camera, you'll generally have to pay more for something like a $999 Olympus E-P5 (~0.9 sec) or an $828 Panasonic GX7 (~0.9 sec).

As for buying a camera locally for $275 without a warranty versus online for $330 with a warranty and a return policy - I recommend paying the extra $55 for peace of mind. You can always send it back if the camera is too slow.

Again, hope this is helpful!

Bill

 

[manaheim]

^ I do believe I have been mis-attributed.

 

[Derrel]

Isn't the 11-22mm lens for the Canon EOS-M the exact same lens that Canon will NOT SELL in the USA? Canon 11-22mm f/4.5-5.6 IS STM | Sans Mirror ? mirrorless, interchangeable lens cameras | Thom Hogan

The link provided above is for 11-22 lenses shipping from Japan, and South Korea, among other places.Cnet's review of the EOS-M was written before dealers had to desperately try to fire-sale an exceptionally poor-selling camera. A camera cursed with a poor AF system and lukewarm Canon, USA support is indeed a better value when it's fire-sale priced, rather than ridiculously over-priced. Fer sure.

Canon Gets it Wrong With the EOS M | Sans Mirror ? mirrorless, interchangeable lens cameras | Thom Hogan

"All of which makes me wonder why the EOS M was even sold in the US. If I were a dealer, I'd demand that Canon take back any inventory of the product I had obtained, because effectively Canon is saying "we're selling a 'system camera' that you can't actually make into a system."

There's a need to help sell cameras that are piling up unsold in dealer warehouses. The camera, and the adapter, have effectively lost 50% or more off of their retail price in the last year. So yeah...it's definitely a bargain table "system".

 

[AlanKlein]

You're wasting your time with mirroless cameraas. While small, they are too large to have with you all the time. I had one and i sits at home. You can't wear it on your belt like an iPhone or P&S. At this stage, most P&S's will give you better photos than iPhones especially if you need flash or are shooting at night or in darker places.

 

[Kolia]

So what's the budget here ?

Because we jump from 250$-800$ every other post.

Remember that as far as timing to a first shoot, it's boot up + zoom + focus that counts.

Have you been out to a store to play with any of these cameras ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve5D]

I've got an iPhone 5S. I really like it. Yes, it takes great pictures.

For a phone...

 

[Derrel]

I've got an iPhone 5S. I really like it. Yes, it takes great pictures.

For a phone...

30 awesome Instagram accounts you need to follow | ITworld

12,13 years ago, even the outdated iPhone 4 would have been priced at $1,999.95 and been classified as a "high-resolution digital imaging system, capable of shooting high-definition stills and video."

What, exactly, is your point??? Have you ever shared images or video in real-time, to social media sites?

 

[Steve5D]

30 awesome Instagram accounts you need to follow | ITworld

I think I might have an Instagram account. Maybe. If I do, I haven't seen it in some time...

12,13 years ago, even the outdated iPhone 4 would have been priced at $1,999.95 and been classified as a "high-resolution digital imaging system, capable of shooting high-definition stills and video."

Well, Hell, lemme' fire up the Way Back Machine and we can all have a big ol' time impressing the Y2K crowd with our iPhones.

The iPhone wasn't around until 2007, so trying to say what it would be in 1999 is pretty pointless. An AMC Pacer is pretty much a POS, but it would run circles around a Model T. Using your logic, though, that makes the AMC Pacer a damn fine automobile...

What, exactly, is your point??? Have you ever shared images or video in real-time, to social media sites?

Um, yeah.

So what? The OP hasn't said a word about wanting to do that but, by all means, go ahead and run off on an unrelated tangent. Those are usually pretty entertaining...

The fact that I've used it to post photos to social media sites in no way suggests that I think it produces better images than an actual camera. I don't believe it does. All it means is that the iPhone allows me to immediately post photos and videos, and nothing more. That ability does not, in any way, shape or form, translate to a better image.

Furthermore, I never said the iPhone takes bad photos. In fact it takes the best photos I've seen come out of a smart phone...

 

[Jixr]

OP HERE

let me clean up some questions
My Budget: No more than $500 for a kit ( can always buy more lens's later if I like the system )

I'm not interested in the Pentax Q or the Q10, mainly the Q7, which to one poster was replying about the slowness of the original Q, the Q7 is pretty quick to boot up and use. Not as fast as my iphone, but It should be quick enough. ( but some of the cheapest models i've tested have been horribly slow ) ( note the q7 is newer and faster than the q10 )

As far as instant uploading to social media, etc. I'm not that worried about that. If I'm out on location and want to upload something to a social site, I'll generally snap a pic with my phone and post a link to my website so they can see the other images once I edit and upload them. i've never been in a situation where I've wanted to live upload pictures from my big camera as soon as i've taken them. ( besides, editing is half the fun for me ) I generally snap a few pics anyway for a cheap way to geo-tag photos from my dslr.

Night performance needs to be good, ( as why i've been wanting a prime lens ) since most of the time I plan on using this camera it would be for nights out, concerts, shows, etc. Generally in places where "pro-cameras" are not allowed. and the pentax is so tiny and toy like (epsc if i got it in a goofy color ) that security would have no problem with it.

Though after searching and searching, it seems there just isnt anything yet in my budget. and I DON'T want to spend more than I did for my canon red-ring'd lens, or my DSLR kit ( both I paid $500 ea for ) Sure there are cameras with everything I want in the $700+ range, but for that price I just can't do it, I'd then rather just sell my body and upgrade to a pro-sumer grade dslr body ( curently a canon t3i ) or a nice lens. ( probably the 70-200 f4L )

The problem I have with P&S is the horribly slow zooms on them. turning them on you have to wait for the barrel to extend out of the body, and pushing the little lever to zoom in our out takes for ever, hence why I like the idea of mirrorless, just twist to zoom.

Though on ebay there are people selling new q7 bodies for $350 ( stripped kits ) and the prime can be bought anywhere for $200, and thats only $550 which is doable. ( but no warranty, returns, etc. on the body ) My local camera shop does buy used gear, and I could see what they would give me for the kit lens ( buy the kit, and turn around and sell the lens back ) my guess wouldn't be anymore than $50 though, which would just cover the sales tax, considering you can buy the body only for just $20 less than the kit.

I do suppose I can always 'rent' one. Buy one, test it for a weekend, and if I don't like it I can just return it.

And whatever I get must absolutely be able to shoot RAW. I'd honestly be happy using my iphone if it shot raw.

 

[robbins.photo]

Well, Hell, lemme' fire up the Way Back Machine and we can all have a big ol' time impressing the Y2K crowd with our iPhones.

I dunno. I mean I love the wayback machine, don't get me wrong. But were talking about savages here. Folks that lived clear back in 99'.

An AMC Pacer is pretty much a POS, but it would run circles around a Model T. Using your logic, though, that makes the AMC Pacer a damn fine automobile...

You mean it isn't? I mean it's so cute.. and fishbowl like...

 

[Jixr]

actually, I just got back from the store, played with the fuji x20, and i think i'm in love.

Feels amazing in the hands, its kind of a mirrorless p&s mix, no removable lens, but you twist the barrel to zoom, optical viewfinder, and tons of other nifty features, and its on sale for $500.

 

[Tony S]

I'm going to bet that even if you get the mirrorless pocket camera you are still going to forget or just not carry it. Which means you are back to your Iphone and the $ you spent on the new carry camera is wasted.

Spend the money on a better way to carry your DSLR so you carry it more often than on a new camera that most likely you will not carry as often as your Iphone.

 

[Jixr]

Picked up the x20 yesterday, took it to the park after work, played with it at home ( indoors )

I'm not sure i'm impressed just yet.
I was skeptical about buying such ( to me ) an expensive camera, thats basically a really fancy compact camera.

I love the design, the pictures are not terrible ( though iso 800 is a bit too grainy for me, and its hard to shoot less than that indoors or in darker areas )

My first cam was a canon dslr, so I guess i've been spoiled by that.

The sensor size is kind of a put off for the price and size of the camera. there are smaller cameras with much larger sensors. the fast f2-2.8 is really about an f4 or so on a crop body dslr, which means it is pretty much the same as my canon 17-40mm f4 L (27mm-64mm 35mm equivilant )

I'm really on the fence about returning it. Going to play with it some more today, and see how it does. Its nice, I just don't think it is $600 nice.

And if I do return it, i'm probably just going to hold out for prices of mirrorless systems to fall or possibly find a used one.

Taking it with me isnt the problem. I have a bag that I take with me everywhere, and my DSLR fits in it perfectly, The size of the x20 is not small enough that it will fit in a pocket, but with its included strap I just toss it on my shoulder and off we go, and its small enough that i'm not worried about bumping it into things. ( with my dslr on my sling I often still keep a hand over the lens to protect it from bumping into things )

Also the body is a magnisium alloy, nice feel, but some of the buttons wobble a good bit, the back scroll wheel feels very loose and cheap compared to the rest of the build.

$600, no way, the $500 I paid, eh... $400 and under, I would be okay with. I love love love it, but not for the price.
I'm pretty conflicted, I love the little cam, but I feel like I paid too much for what i'm getting out of it, but on the other hand, its the only small-ish camera with the features I want.