Mamiya 645 trouble

[Derrel]

If it's not working like the manual says, chances are it's broken, i.e., in need of repair.

Possibly... but for some reason there's something about this particular set of circumstances that sticks in my mind, but I can't for the life of me remember what it is, and I can't find my Mamiya books anywhere...

"it's a Mamiya 645..."

Nuff said!

 

[unpopular]

^^lmao. that is EXACTLY what I was going to say.

 

[tirediron]

Ahhhhhhhhhh... stick it in your sock! What's wrong with having a camera where you have to stand on one toe, spin around twice and say "Oommbbaaa goomba" before you can shoot? If I wanted easy I would have bought a Pentax!

 

[Kieranjohn]

New fresh set of batterys on both devices,
fresh film,
took all the pieces apart then reassembled.

Same problem.

It must be something with the shutter mechanism, but why allow firing on timer?

I may be not describing it right, I'm super thankful for the help dudes I'll upload a video to youtube of the machine problems and post the link.

 

[unpopular]

If Dell made medium format cameras, they'd be Mamiya.

 

[Derrel]

New fresh set of batterys on both devices,
fresh film,
took all the pieces apart then reassembled.

Same problem.

It must be something with the shutter mechanism, but why allow firing on timer?

I may be not describing it right, I'm super thankful for the help dudes I'll upload a video to youtube of the machine problems and post the link.

I'm not that familiar with the Mamiya 645...but SOME cameras designed in days of yore have separate "self-timer" and "non-timer" or "regular" actuation modes; if I were not so busy drinking coffee and buzzing all over TPF, I might spend time on Butkus.org leafing through a PDF formatted instruction book for the camera, and trying to find out if the 645 is such a beast. Is there perhaps a switch around the shutter release that one turns,and perhaps locks out the shutter release button? Is there a special self-timer switch that must be re-set to change between self-timer shutter release and "regular", press-the-button-and-she-fires priority? Just spit-balling here...

When one is not intimately familiar with a complicated machine, there can at times be some odd, confusing issues that creep up. I'm more of an RB-67 kinda guy, and a Bronica SQ-a kinda guy...but it seems like there COULD be some type of control or mode switch that is messing things up...

 

[Derrel]

Anything in the manual that helps?

Okay....I JUST went and looked at the manual, VERY briefly. I wonder..it says that ,"The camera's focal plane shutter must be at 1/8 second for leaf shutter operation."

I also see a control named Auxillary Release Contact, bottom left side....which is used for "special releases", such as the hand grip unit or remote control releases...

I see that it also has a Mirror Lock-up Mode,.

There is also a THREE-POSITION shutter release selector....one position is for self-timer...another appears to be for LOCK...

Complicating the issue, the camera ALSO HAS a built-in "feature" (feature???) that will SELF-COCK the shutter when the Power Drive WG401 is attached and a film magazine that is partially exposed is attached to the camera...read more detail about that on page 5 of the manual...this feature is somehow inter-connected to the shutter release...I WONDER if, perhaps, this camera can suffer from SHUTTER-LOCK UP, in the same,exact way that the Nikon FE-2 series cameras can, when the motor winder is removed and the shutter release LOCK mechanism becomes "out of synchronization" with the film advance/motor winder/cocking system!!!!!!

OLDER cameras, from the pre-fully-electronic era often have complicated mechanical/electrical interfaces, and can be prone to simple "jamming" when one part of the "chain" is either removed, or turned on or off, and one step in the complex network of film advance, mirror return,shutter priming/cocking,etc. is performed out of sequence!!!!

 

[unpopular]

I'm thinking it has to do with the shutter delay/lock switch. While the instructions doesn't say so specifically, it does indicate that

The Self-Timer can also be over-ridden by inserting the Dark Slide into the Film Holder or setting the camera Shutter Speed Dial to “B”.

Because the self timer and lock mode are operated by the same switch, I am thinking that they have similar mechanism. However, I am not sure what they mean by "override". Ensure that the shutter mode is "normal", indicated by the white square on the switch directly below the lens and to the left.

-----

Derrel beat me to it.

 

[Kieranjohn]

Anything in the manual that helps?

I WONDER if, perhaps, this camera can suffer from SHUTTER-LOCK UP, in the same,exact way that the Nikon FE-2 series cameras can, when the motor winder is removed and the shutter release LOCK mechanism becomes "out of synchronization" with the film advance/motor winder/cocking system!!!!!!

OLDER cameras, from the pre-fully-electronic era often have complicated mechanical/electrical interfaces, and can be prone to simple "jamming" when one part of the "chain" is either removed, or turned on or off, and one step in the complex network of film advance, mirror return,shutter priming/cocking,etc. is performed out of sequence!!!!

What you're saying there makes sense.
The grip does wind the film on for me,
mayhaps when I pushed the shutter release that time with the dark slide still inserted I knocked it out of sync?

 

[Derrel]

Not-entirely-simple mechanical systems, in-body focal plane shutter and leaf shutter lens simultaneous operation possible, self-timer/dark slide interlock system, automatic film advance and shutter cocking system with auxilliary grip, special auxilliary shutter release control switch...multi-position shutter release function collar...design by Dell Computer....err....I mean...Mamiya....so, you bought the camera and in less than four hours have experienced the wonders of 1970's engineering...I have no experience with this specific camera, but I DO KNOW that many cameras of that era had 'issues' that meant the user had to be intimately familiar with the required operating procedures and the undocumented operartional foibles, such as the somewhat well-known Nikon "use a Lincoln penny to short out the contacts and un-jam the motor drive" trick...

EDIT: I wrote the above when yuo were uploading the video...I have not seen the video yet, but YEAH...what I am trying to say is that cameras of this general "era" often had weird mechanical/electrical/motor-winding 'issues", and had VERY SPECIFIC issues with synchronizing issues, like inter-lens shutter cocking, In-BODY focal plane and inter-lens shutter synch issues, mirror return, diaphragm re-opening,film advance, etc,etc..

 

[Derrel]

Does that 80mm C lens have an interlens shutter??? And in WHICH position is the Auxilliary SHutter Release control switch on the camera's LEFT side set to???

THe manual says the camera body's focal plane shutter has to be set to 1/8 second for an interlens shutter to fire...I thought "maybe" the 80mm "C" lens had a "Compur" shutter inside it. Is there a second, BODY-mounted speed dial underneath that prism????? Do you have the rotating collar around the shutter release button SET RIGHT? TO Instantaneous, and NOT to self-timer mode??? Can't see that in the video...

I don't have full information here, such as the 80mm C lens's shutter status,etc.

 

[unpopular]

Watching the video, it almost looks like you're somehow stuck in lock mode. Here is an interesting bit that might suggest it has something to do with a motor drive:

Select this mode if the camerawill be idle for a period and toprevent accidental shutter release.Also when the Power Drive Grip isused.

I am wondering if it's thinking there is a winder attached?

 

[unpopular]

I thought "maybe" the 80mm "C" lens had a "Compur" shutter inside it.

"C" is the mount. AFAIK they used Seiko shutters.

 

[unpopular]

Just curious. what happens when you lock up the mirror?

 

[Kieranjohn]

Just tried a bunch of stuff there and still no luck,
even with the winder detached I still have the red light.
Mirror lock up yields the same result.
I have the dial set to the white sqaure which is in the middle,
As far as I can tell the red circle is for it when it's not in use?