Need An Opinion On Photo Manipulation

[sooperfly]

Hello.

I am currently trying to prove some photos were manipulated, and a fake Date/Time Stamp was inserted into a series of Photos.

Attached are some of the photos that were submitted with date stamps.

By looking at these photos, you can clearly see the Date Stamps are not real, but I need verification from a real photographer with photo editing experience.

I have more pictures if you'd like to see them, but didn't want to fill the entire thread with all of them.

This came from an uploaded PDF document, so I am unable to get the original EXIF Data, and that's why I'm here to get a professional opinion.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l168/mannyarroyo/antenna3_zpsicedknnj.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l168/mannyarroyo/antenna5_zpsoggjdojt.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l168/mannyarroyo/antenna1_zpshrdw9qo7.jpg

 

[480sparky]

.........that's why I'm here to get a professional opinion.
..........

Unfortunately, our collective opinions won't have much legal weight. If you need this for use in court, subpoena the original images.

 

[sooperfly]

This is not for a legal proceeding.

As stated in the OP, I am simply asking for a professional opinion on what you see.

 

[astroNikon]

in many cameras where *you* set the date time stamp, the date/time stamp is based on what the user entered into the camera.

Thus the EXIF will have *that* date/time stamp.

So you'd have to go to the original photographer of when they took the images.
Or use some common sense based on things in the image.
For instance, with no snow in the images (other than not knowing where they were taken) and the workers being in short sleeves, I assume the weather was nice. So was the weather nice on March 18th?? or was there 6 inches of snow on the ground.

Can't do much as I'm sure the camera had the date/time entered by the user.

 

[astroNikon]

Oh, and if these are not your images I don't think you can post them.
you can put them elsewhere such as flickr and provide links to them.

 

[sooperfly]

These images were posted publicly, and are not private images.

The weather was nice, as this is in Florida and it was a beautiful day.

Take a good look at the date stamps. If you look on all 3 pictures, some of the outlines are missing on the picture, but they appear on another side of the picture.

Is it possible for that to happen at any point of taking the picture, scanning, or uploading that the outline or part of the date stamp itself show up on another completely different section of the picture itself?

For example, look at the picture with the satellite dish. If you look closely, the entire black outline is missing from the date stamp. However, the black outline appears on the dish in the middle of the picture. Has anyone ever seen that happen or is this just a bad photoshop job?

 

[Derrel]

Yes, the second image....looks like the "painting in" of the type was done badly!!! Soooooo obviously the date stamp was typed in, but the filled-in coloring was not applied properly; not that that proves it was NOT that date, but it does show that the "date stamp" was added to the photo by a person, and was NOT created by the camera. The photo does not have EXIF information riding with it, so perhaps it was "Saved for the web", and the EXIF information was stripped at that time.

As mentioned, the ORIGINAL images would have EXIF information with a lot of information, such as the camera that shot the images, its serial number, and other information.

 

[Gary A.]

I think Astro is on to something. Use what in the image to establish the date. As he stated, it would be quite easy to change the date in the EXIF as well. It looks as if a crane was used in the erection of the antenna, (hopefully not as that would be a terrible waste of a crane). If you can get the records from the crane company, or if a man lift was used to hoist the antenna, the the records from the man lift company. Look for ways/clues to collaborate the date.

 

[tirediron]

These images were posted publicly, and are not private images.

Unfortunately that means nothing. Just because I post a photo online in a publicly view-able/accessible area does NOT mean that you can do with it as you wish.

 

[sooperfly]

The images were addressed to me personally and were posted publicly for me.

If you need proof of that I can provide it.

I am not pulling someone else's images off the web.

 

[480sparky]

These images were posted publicly, and are not private images.
..........

You'll find out that although 99.999999999% of the people on the planet share this view, it is wholly and totally incorrect.

Can you copy anything from a book, a magazine, a TV show, a movie........... just because you can see it?

https://www.copyright.gov/title17/circ92.pdf

 

[sooperfly]

I think Astro is on to something. Use what in the image to establish the date. As he stated, it would be quite easy to change the date in the EXIF as well. It looks as if a crane was used in the erection of the antenna, (hopefully not as that would be a terrible waste of a crane). If you can get the records from the crane company, or if a man lift was used to hoist the antenna, the the records from the man lift company. Look for ways/clues to collaborate the date.

This is a 30lb antenna. A simple small electric winch with a rope was used. No heavy machinery.

 

[Designer]

I am currently trying to prove some photos were manipulated, ..

And if they were? I am curious as to what, exactly, you are trying to prove.

Let's assume the photos were manipulated, as that sort of thing does occur. It would appear then, that the installation company is trying to "prove" that they installed the antenna on a certain date, and wish to rely on the date stamp on some photographs to back them up. As far as I know, these date stamps are not inviolate proof of an actual date, as most courts already know those can be manipulated.

Now let's further assume that the installation was done on some other day. Then what? Are they in breach of their contract? What is the total downside? If they are in breach, would that make them financially responsible for repairs? What does your attorney say about it?

You can argue the point of manipulated photographs all day, and will most likely not be able to prove it, and might even possibly be arguing the wrong point to settle the case in your favor. Somebody needs to look at the entire body of evidence, and the date stamps might not be relevant anyway.

 

[sooperfly]

I am currently trying to prove some photos were manipulated, ..

And if they were? I am curious as to what, exactly, you are trying to prove.

Let's assume the photos were manipulated, as that sort of thing does occur. It would appear then, that the installation company is trying to "prove" that they installed the antenna on a certain date, and wish to rely on the date stamp on some photographs to back them up. As far as I know, these date stamps are not inviolate proof of an actual date, as most courts already know those can be manipulated.

Now let's further assume that the installation was done on some other day. Then what? Are they in breach of their contract? What is the total downside? If they are in breach, would that make them financially responsible for repairs? What does your attorney say about it?

You can argue the point of manipulated photographs all day, and will most likely not be able to prove it, and might even possibly be arguing the wrong point to settle the case in your favor. Somebody needs to look at the entire body of evidence, and the date stamps might not be relevant anyway.

This is not a legal case.

The person who had to prove this antenna was put up had a deadline of 3/20/17.

They are claiming it was completed and put up on 3/18/17.

I am simply trying to prove the Date Stamp was placed in the pictures after the fact and that I need the original files.

 

[astroNikon]

Do you have pictures from 3/18, 3/19 or 3/20 that can counter/contradict that it was put up on 3/20 ?