The Paper Negative

[mysteryscribe]

Lessons I learned from yesterdays shoot and my development...

1. Trust your light meter don't overthink the exposure there is NO latitude.

2. Make you system and work your system... don't try to tinker with it as you go along.

3. if you feel the need to improve on 2 above do it with test not good shots.

4. Mix developer daily and throw out yesterdays just as soon as you walk in the door.

5. Flush all tanks & lids THOROUGHLY between uses.

6. It may be possible to shoot paper at higher iso out doors by making hot shot chemical loads (investigate same)

more as I figure it out... if you shoot paper, please share your experiences I am trying to get a handle on this stuff.

 

[JamesD]

Absolutely right about the latitude. Which actually makes sense: if you've got five stops from max shadow to max highlight, in both your print paper and you film (which is also print paper), then you're gonna have to get it right smack dab on... Plus, you've only got five stops of sensitiviy.

To help with this, I've been using Dektol at 1:5 for the negatives. It seems to help, but I really should make several shots of a subject using the same exposure, then develop half in Dektol 1:2 and half in 1:5. That's the only way to really tell for sure. I'll have to get on that.

Oh, and with contact printing, I've been able to extend the range just ever so slightly by using soft contrast filters--I think.. More testing required.

 

[mysteryscribe]

I absolutely agree with all that. The first thing for me to do. Is to see if i can rasie the outdoor iso of the film with chemical mix. Iso 5 is to slow for a paper negative. It is okay for pinhole but for use as an all purpose film subsitute in primative techniques, I need to get the bright light speed up to about 25... I can live with that.

Five is okay to set them down in a chair in the shade and say now hold very still. But out in the bright light when they are walking about, it need to be at least iso20. From todays accident I think it is possible to do. I mixed a very hot load of chemicals and they turned the paper black but with a hidden image in it. If I can control that image I should be able to work out an iso for the paper that is higher. Who knows. I would love to be able to make primative images in a walk about way.

 

[mysteryscribe]

I've been thinking we need to start a new gallery type thread here like the retro thread. You can pick the name but make it all paper negs. Everything from pinhole to primative lens to retro even the people with the graflex cameras. You could mostly likely shoot paper negs in your 645 even matter of fact i know you can. Just a gallery with nothing but paper neg pics. When we do YOU have to post pictures to. If you want to put some in a festival, you have to show us first lol.

We also need people who are willing to do critigues not just atta boy the prints to death. It's a different kind of bird who wanders into this jungle.

 

[JamesD]

You're right, I haven't been posting many--or any, really--images. Truth is, I haven't taken many. I don't get out to take enough 35mm photos, and the paper negative stuff is darkroom intensive... and my darkroom is a pain to work in. It's a closet, with the oversized enlarger sitting on the floor. Not exactly prime working conditions, if you know what I mean. I also don't have a changing bag, which makes even film a pain, sometimes. Add my work schedule into that....

I'd thought about using paper in a roll-fed camera. Unfortunately, 10 inches of paper isn't much... about six shots in 135 format if I use a clever system to replace leader and trailer, and then I have to add sprocket holes too LOL. It's only five shots in in the 6X4.5 format. Then, there's the problem with enlarging them. I won't say it can't be done, but I steadfastly refuse to add any sort of computer manipulation into the process. My current aim is to learn and become proficient with darkroom processes. So, I've been sticking to the 4X5 format.

As for the festival... I haven't the foggiest what I'm going to be doing. I might wind up doing a few postcards... I'll have to see what I can work up.

 

[mysteryscribe]

I was thinking in the medium format make the roll like a 220 roll. Just a leader taped to the film then a traler taped to that. Develop it in a film tank. Make several three exposure rolls.

 

[mysteryscribe]

On the card thing... several years ago when I was doing festivals.. I had a set of note cards. made the print in one corner then folded it up. Got hold of some envelops from wedding invitations matched the color pretty well and set them out to sell. To give you an idea how well they sold... I think my wife used the last one last year lol..

 

[JamesD]

I have some ethical reasoning to do with the whole arts & crafts booth thing, anyway. I'm not inclined to charge too much for them. If the price is low, it'd fit both the photog's bracket (I'm really not very good) and encourage sales (maybe). In that case, it'd be enough to pay for themselves and replenish my film-fund a little (which term I really need to rename "darkroom fund"). In the past, that's how I've worked... if someone wanted a copy of a print, I'd typically ask for however much it was to get the reprint made (I was working with WalMart 1-hour then, and the enlargements weren't too bad) and suggest a donation of a buck or two for the film fund.

I'm not one of those pretentious tyros spoken of in "that other" thread, but at the same time, I'd feel bad if someone else locally was trying to make a living off prints similar to mine and I was driving down the market value.

Eh, I'm just rambling. I'm rearranging my darkroom, so I'll get back to it.

 

[JamesD]

Hmmm... just found a roll of TMax that needs dev.... I wonder what's on it.... :scratch:

 

[mysteryscribe]

best investment you can make is a changing bag. then you can do your developing in the kitchen sink anytime

 

[JamesD]

Okay, I'm itching to do something. Tomorrow, I'm going to make myself another 4X5 box and try to mount that 150mm lens in it. I can use the same back as I've been using for my pinhole... but I really need to make another one, maybe some kind of holder with a dark slide to make field photography easier....


Yeah, I think I can do that... cardboard and duct tape.... Hmmm...

 

[mysteryscribe]

ah think masonite

 

[mysteryscribe]

I have been mulling over your donation thing and I really like it. If you are in it for the fun, then you should try to make a product that isn't competeing with the "real" photographers.. Which by the way is a joke. Nonetheless I see your point. I personally like to stick it in their eye.

The post cards,,, or note cards ... or stationary markets should be non competative.

Long ago, in a galaxy far far away, before there were digital camera that would make an 8x10 print without some pixelization, I tried a series of experiments. I was looking for a way to make a print that I could use even with the drawback of the 640x480 image size.

I'll share a secret with you guys. You can run a piece of water color paper through a color ink jet and get one hell of a print. Im not kidding, your ink jet inks absorb into the paper in a different way. It looks like a water color painting somewhat. The paper is thick and stiff but it will go through. I'm not sure what damage it would do to the printer but I know you can do it at least a few times before it burns up....I expect its a mother on eating up ink.

You know that print of the kids on the marry go round... I bet you could take that process print a print very light on regular textured paper in an ink jet and make a nice note card. The image and convenience of the folded up card is a nice thing to sell. But that is just a little thing for your ego you wont get rich at it. You also won't be robbing anyone else. I have never seen any other photographer selling them at an arts fair.

I should really make some more. I take mine to the office depot to print. They have the colored papers. Color paper with black ink seemed to do okay. I think you can take them the jpg on a floppy and they can positon it on the page for you and everything. Those guys are my printer.. I have a matrix just for contracts and labels. If I need a real print I swing by the depot.

 

[JamesD]

Allrighty, I've just run a ten-inch strip of Ilford MCIII through the Mamiya 645. It's in the wash. The emulsion is toward the inside, so I can't see too much on it, but it did make images. I rated it at about ISO 6, with five or six exposures starting at f 2.8/4sec, f 2.8/2 sec, f2.8/1 sec, f4/1sec, f5.6/1 sec, f8/1sec.

A couple of observations...

- Paper is thick and squirrely. It took a couple of tries to get it positioned at the same point on the backing paper as the original film.

- Paper is not the same width as film. It therefore requires cutting. If you don't get it cut exactly right (especially if it's a little wide) then it will be a serious pain in the posterior to get it on the spool. It will make the camera stiff to wind. It will make the reel hard to load. And it will cause at least one edge (probably the cut edge) to fray.

- It's a little difficult to cut paper in the dark; ie when your safelight bulb has inconveniently burnt out and you have to wait for the one you've ordered to arrive, because the local shop sold you the last one they had several months ago.

- Scotch tape is difficult to stick accurately in the dark.

- If you pull scotch tape off rapidly, it makes static electricity discharges.

- At ISO 6, it doesn't appear that these static discharges are terribly bothersome, provided you stick the tape on the BACK of the paper, not the emulsion side. This is good practice, anyway, because scotch tape will RIP the emulsion right off. (I knew this beforehand from having taped a print to something once. Bad juju.)

- If you've given people the advice of "Stick a sheet of paper or a card with a number written on it so you know which exposure is which," then you'd damned sure better follow it, and if you don't, then you deserve what you get.

Okay, wash is up. Lemme go see.

 

[mysteryscribe]

Okay you can cut the paper a little narrower than the backing it isnt a problem. The film you are replacing is approx 2 3/8 inches wide. 2 1/4 should be good for you. You wont need the full tail of the black backing since the paper isnt as long as the film was, you can eliminate a good sized chunk of it...

To roll it up you without the hassle factor. Put a paper clip on it at the spot where you want to tape it. Then roll it up from the back end. Only tape it when you get it rolled to the paper clip. That will allow it to move around a wee bit. I use masking tape or draftsman's paper tape to secure it.

If the roll is too thick while going through the camera, then proceed to using it like 22o film. Roll your trailer on to the spool. masking tape it to the paper end. roll the paper neg onto the spool (no backing). Tape your leader onto the end of the paper neg and roll it onto the spool. This will allow you to handle the neg before and after you shoot it, but it will cut the thickness almost in half, since there will be no backing over your paper negative.

Cutting in the dark is tough alright. I cut mine inside a box with a changing bag for access. It is worse than cutting in the dark.

I have heard that the static charge will do something, I have never had anything effected but it might do it to someone else but they are cute to look at when you tear the paper.

If you are running in the 645 you should be able to get 6 to 8 negs i would think. More than with the pinhole. Your best bet will be a old style press cam since you are in a building mode.