uh oh, new dSLR rumors!

thebeginning · Aug 2, 2006

found this posted on a few other forums...

http://www.camerawest.com/

New this Fall!
Canon 1DS 22mp
Leica M8 Digital
Nikon D80 10mp

hmm. that would be pretty incredible. i found another place that said the m8 was going to run at about 5000 USD, and is going to be similar to an m7 body, but digital. wowza. who knows what the 22mpx 1ds is, probably a 1dsIII or something. No doubt it will be very good, but I'm more interested in the 3d mentioned here:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/Canon_1DS_MkIII.html

Big Mike · Aug 2, 2006

:roll: I love rumor season.

Every 6 months (for Canon anyway) the rumor mill starts cranking out all sorts of things. The reality is that those who do know what is coming, probably won't tell anyone...and anyone (or site) that claims to know something...probably doesn't.

thebeginning · Aug 2, 2006

i'm afraid so...although there was a rumor about sony coming out with a camera a while back, and the same about the new 10mp nikon, and both of those happened...i suppose we shall just see. i'm thinking there will be a couple things announced at photokina this year, so perhaps then.

darin3200 · Aug 2, 2006

I'm most interested in seeing the M8 and how leica is going to make the switch to digital.

Digital Matt · Aug 2, 2006

I've been wondering for a while now about 35mm based DSLRs. How much larger can they go in megapixels before there is no room on the sensor? 17.6 is already a lot. If they do indeed reach 22mp, I would think that the next step is increasing the size of the sensor, which brings you into medium format digital. All new bodies, all new lenses.

Will Canon and Nikon eventually end up with MF dSLRs?

thebeginning · Aug 2, 2006

darin3200 said:
I'm most interested in seeing the M8 and how leica is going to make the switch to digital.

i believe they already have...i dont know the names of them, but i'm almost sure there is an R9 or DMR or something like that that's already out there

Big Mike · Aug 2, 2006

It's hard to say if they will expand the sensors. They haven't really been in the MF film business, unless they own one of the brands in that market. I don't think they will...after all, their current '35mm' DLSR cameras are rivaling or beating 35mm film...which was the biggest market before digital. The question is "What would you be able to do with MF digital that you can't do with '35mm' digital?" There will obviously still be some applications for large sensor MF cameras...but I think it will still remain a niche at the top end of the market.

I think that other improvements would be more worth while...like a wider exposure latitude and less noise at higher ISO. Imagine being able to shoot at ISO 6400 without worrying about noise...or having 7 or 9 stops of latitude in a single exposure? :drool:

Big Mike · Aug 2, 2006

thebeginning said:
i believe they already have...i dont know the names of them, but i'm almost sure there is an R9 or DMR or something like that that's already out there

Ya, don't they make a 'Digilux' or something? ...........yes they do.

Leica Digital models

Tiberius · Aug 2, 2006

I think that other improvements would be more worth while...like a wider exposure latitude and less noise at higher ISO. Imagine being able to shoot at ISO 6400 without worrying about noise...or having 7 or 9 stops of latitude in a single exposure?

Amen to that. 99% of people rarely need the full quality given by 10MP, and 98% of people never need more than 6MP. 22MP would just mean larger file sizes that really aren't needed. But high noiseless ISOs would be a gift from the gods, and increased dynamic range is always a good thing.

Digital Matt · Aug 2, 2006

Big Mike said:
It's hard to say if they will expand the sensors. They haven't really been in the MF film business, unless they own one of the brands in that market. I don't think they will...after all, their current '35mm' DLSR cameras are rivaling or beating 35mm film...which was the biggest market before digital. The question is "What would you be able to do with MF digital that you can't do with '35mm' digital?" There will obviously still be some applications for large sensor MF cameras...but I think it will still remain a niche at the top end of the market.

I don't think they are going to just stop cranking up the megapixels. I seriously doubt that Canon will get to a point, say 22mp for instance, and never make a digital camera with more megapixels. There is a finite limit to the number of photo sites you can fit on a 24x36mm sensor.

I think that other improvements would be more worth while...like a wider exposure latitude and less noise at higher ISO. Imagine being able to shoot at ISO 6400 without worrying about noise...or having 7 or 9 stops of latitude in a single exposure?

To a certain degree, those improvements you mentioned are advantages of a larger sensor. That's why most images from a Rebel XT or D50 look better than a comparable point and shoot, even with the same amount of megapixels. The same is true of APS-C sized sensors compared to MF sized sensors.

darin3200 · Aug 2, 2006

thebeginning said:
i believe they already have...i dont know the names of them, but i'm almost sure there is an R9 or DMR or something like that that's already out there

Yeah, but the M series has a lot of reputation. I also read that they are using vertical metal shutters in the M8 which will probably be louder than the horizontal clothe ones in the M7.

Big Mike · Aug 2, 2006

I'm sure they will continue to try to crank up the mega pixels...that's the number they love to put on the box or right on the front of most cameras. It sells...and if they keep upping it, people will keep buying new cameras...weather they need it or not.

Aren't they making the photo-sites smaller and smaller? Isn't that how they went from 1MP to 7MP on those tiny little P&S sensors? I'm sure there is a limit...but are they there yet?

Of course bigger sensors make those things better...but as technology improves, they should be able to get more out of smaller sensors. I'm sure they would actually love to go with MF sized sensors...just so they could sell everybody a whole new set of lenses.

Digital Matt · Aug 2, 2006

I'm not saying that they are there yet, or anywhere close. It may be 5, or 10 years, but I do wonder if they will go MF.

Big Mike · Aug 2, 2006

I hear ya...

I'm guessing that they (Canon & Nikon) would already have gone with some MF sensors & cameras...but there is the issue of lenses. They would have to develop and make their own MF lenses (which they just might do)...or they could make their cameras to accept other brands of lenses...but I can't see them wanting to do that.

thebeginning · Aug 2, 2006

who knows...i kinda doubt it, as the prices would be quite high and the percentage of photographers that would require one would be quite small. if there were photographers that would look into them, they probably would have already looked into the current MF digital models.

i would love lower noise at high iso's, but that's always a factor. the foveon chips are mentioned to be very good at that, so that is a possibility. dynamic range is a problem, but only in the highlight end IMO. from measurements done through tests, most popular dSLRs (d200, d2x, 30d, 5d, 1ds2, etc.) have a range of about 8 or so stops....they handle shadow details better than film, but film handles highlights a good bit better. with raw you can pull back both ends pretty far, too. it would be nice to have better highlight capabilities...

here's an example of that process i found at dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/page22.asp