using flash outdoors in shade

Discussion in 'Beyond the Basics' started by Sgt., Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Sgt.

    Sgt. TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Using an Canon ae1 slr with a hotshoe flash. Shooting birds in daylight, but shade of trees. Recently tried ISO 800 film. Lenses are FD mount Vivitar 70-210mm with Kenlock 2x teleconverter.
    The flash is Olympus T20 and it has manual mode with ASA (ISO) settings.
    Without flash the exposure is too dark with higher shutter speeds being hand held to reduce image blur. Idea is using higher 800 ISO film will lighten the exposure.
    What manual setting should the flash be on? is ASA 800 manual more or less flash? I am shooting generally at about 20-30ft. and flash might not even matter as it doesn't sync with higher shutter speeds. The problem I am struggling with is that of exposures being too dark. The teleconverter 2x makes it two stops darker. Can I compensate by setting my camera ISO to 400 or 200? Should the flash ISO/ASA match the camera? Ugggggg! The camera is near forty years old and using it for bird pics is really challenging...aperture, light metering, shutter speed setting and focus...all in a few seconds before the bird moves on!


     
  2. Jamesaz

    Jamesaz TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Phoenix,AZ.
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    I would think about it this way: the flash will freeze the bird (or whatever) so a lower shutter speed is possible. (This is the same concept as synchro-sun.) The lower shutter speed will also allow the background and other not flashed areas to gain more density on the negative, (more light). I am not at all familiar with that flash but I would think a manual could be found on the web. Some research could also turn up at least a guide number and information on how to use it. It's not hard, just estimating distance and adjusting aperture. Good luck. I ran a lot of film thru an AE-1. Very reliable.
     
  3. FotosbyMike

    FotosbyMike No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    247
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    Most sync speeds are from 1/60-1/200sec(possible with this flash it is 1/125) shutters speeds, so you most set your shutter to these speeds or flash is not going to do much. As Jamasaz stated flash adds light and freezes motion so faster shutters speeds are not going the help, also lowering your shutter speed is going to balance the ambient light with the flash.

    Since you are using film and how I learned in the past, you will have to do a test roll. Load the camera with film, get a piece of paper and write down the settings, shot 1,2,3... ISO 800, Shutter 1/60, F8+2xconverter, flash setting 1/2 power... take a photo, change the shutter speed, take a photo... until you get up to max sync speed. Then go back to 1/60, change flash power to 3/4... then 1/1 etc develop the film and compare the images. Make note of the best exposes set it and go shoot.

    Unless you do more researches don't over ride the ISO setting of the film because if you do when you develop it you will have to ask for them the Push/Pull the film and that is a whole other topic.

    Good luck.
     
  4. Jamesaz

    Jamesaz TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Phoenix,AZ.
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    So, I've given this a little more thought. Your basic exposure is f5.6 at box speed for shutter in open shade. That would be like 4.5@1/1000. Two stops for the extender (500/250th sec) puts it at f4.5@1/125. Now if I remember an AE-1 syncs at 1/60th which would make it f6.7@1/60th sec.
    By all means, test. Be aware though that with a battery powered flash you will get a variable light output as the capacitors fill and discharge and the batteries drain or get hot from use. If you are shooting just for yourself I'd suggest you start with the basic exposure and add light to that. Color negative film is more forgiving of over exposure than under exposure. Again, good luck, have fun. It's only photography
     
  5. Sgt.

    Sgt. TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2017
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    yeah i follow the thought process...the lense recommends shutter speeds close to the focal length...210mm + 2x teleconverter=420...shutter speed 500. However, the 2x teleconverter makes the exposure at least two stops darker than without and at that shutter speed I'm way underexposed. Trying 800 ISP Fuji film and faster shutter speeds (at least 500) to avoid blur and camera shake. Dang! Birds are still for about two seconds and it's a lot to adjust in that time frame. Let me run through my basic understanding with the Canon AE1. The light meter in the view finder shows f stops and 5.6 is middle, so I can shoot in overexposed range like 11. Also, the aperature on the lense are 3.5-22 (I don't know what the green circle at the right of 22 is for). 3.5 is wide open and letting more light enter, but at the cost of portrait distance. f. 22 is smallest light entering but right for distance. I can see the guide numbers and really have to guess quickly at how far the subject is away. There's some math involved here: At f.11 (really like 5.6 lightwise because of 2x teleconverter) aim for the light at f.11 at approx. focus distance of 15 feet...now if I ignored lowering the shutter speed to get within range (probably 1/15s) and set it at 500 I'd get a pretty decent exposure? I tested with lights on indoors. Now flash for fill lighting will sync just fine with 1/15 but won't with 500. That's how I understand it, but still working around shady exposures with higher shutter speeds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  6. Jamesaz

    Jamesaz TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    Phoenix,AZ.
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit


    OK, progress is being made. It's been a while since I used fd lenses so I have no idea what the green circle is. Perhaps it's for auto stop down. An Internet manual would know. I'd suggest ignoring the in camera meter, as with the connections for the teleconverter it may not be giving you accurate readings. If you get a tripod you can use lower ss but if you can't access one you could use a sand bag or such. You want to expose for the light falling on the subject, whether it comes from your flash or reflected up off the ground or a combination of both. (this can affect color temperature but that is a different subject which isn't really important with high speed negative film at this time). To use any type of auto exposure you'd need a dedicated flash, which you don't have, at least for an ae1. So, full manual is the ticket. Find the guide number for the flash. It may say something like GN 160. (I'm picking that because it's easy) What it means is f16@10 feet. Remember the first word is guide so it's really a starting point but a good starting point. So, you're back under the tree, camera on full manual with basic exposure of f6.7@1/60. You have your flash that gives you say f11 at 15-17 feet. The bird finally presents itself at 20 feet distance. You can then just tighten aperture to f8, shoot and watch the bird fly away. The flash will freeze any motion.
    I've heard of folks building a small set with branches and a neutral oof background and baiting it with fruit to get photos of songbirds. Anyway, thanks. This was an enjoyable thought exercise. And if I'm wrong, apologies in advance.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page