Using manual mode...

[angelo_lightning]

So I'm weening myself off automatic. Still use it in a pinch, but I'm taking pictures constantly going from shadow to light, trying to get the perfect exposure and field of depth as fast as possible.

This is the mental process I use for shooting in manual. I'm looking for constructive criticism to make it better.

1. I determine the white balance of the shot. Inside orange, shady blue, or sunlight yellow. I either set the white balance to counteract it, or decide to keep the natural tone of the shot.

2. Now I set the iso all the way down. If possible I want to ignore it. In fact, I don't think of iso as being part of the 'trinity' of exposure. To me its an extra option.

3. I try to fill the frame with the shot. So I zoom if necessary and this gives me my focal length.

4. I decided what kind of depth of field I want and need. If I'm not sure if I can get a perfect shallow depth of field, I stop it down a bit

5. Now I put my shutter speed at a minimum to my focal length. So if I zoomed to 200mm I put my shutter speed at 1/200

6. Now I think about how bright the light is in the environment and how wide my aperture. I speed up the shutter speed to darken it if its too bright.

7. Now, if I have my shutter speed at my minimum in accordance with my focal length... but its still too dark... I might open up my aperture a bit. If my aperture is open all the way or I need to get a large depth of field... I finally go to my iso.


This is pretty much the process I go through when I shoot. Once I get a good exposure, I generally try to only use my shutter speed to adjust for exposure. I also aim low. In other words, I much rather underexpose the image, than overexpose the image, because its a lot easier for me to fix shadows in camera raw than blown highlights. Even though I try to just ignore my iso I tend to use it a lot indoors. It amazes me how much dimmer indoor lighting is than outdoor lighting even though it seems similar to my eyes. Also, it amazes me how I can look at a shaded area under a tree and the grass out in the sun right next to it and see both clearly, while if I take a picture of one or the other I can only expose for one at a time. The dynamic range of my eyes is sooooo much better than my camera.

Right now I'm trying to train my hand and mind to kind of go through this process as fast as possible and do it with as little thought as possible. Trying to get a natural feel for it.

My biggest problem right now is that the force required to click my button tends to shake my camera surprisingly hard, and its really softening up my pictures when I'm kind of in the moment taking candid pictures.

So... whatcha guys think? What am I doing wrong? How can I do this better?

 

[goooner]

When I'm at my zoom/shutter-speed limit I use the 2s self timer to reduce camera shake when I take the shot. This is not ideal in many situations though.

 

[Overread]

2. Now I set the iso all the way down. If possible I want to ignore it. In fact, I don't think of iso as being part of the 'trinity' of exposure. To me its an extra option.

I would try to ween yourself off this line of thought. It's very common because lots of people get told "Keep the ISO low to avoid noise" but what they don't equally realise is that underexposure (which is then brightened up in editing) gives you even more noise than shooting at a higher ISO and getting the exposure right (for a "correct" exposure consider the "expose to the right" theory when reviewing photos using hte histogram - you can google those terms and they should give you a lot of good answers).

I tend to balance my ISO based upon my environment and upon what I'm shooting. If I'm indoors I might set it at ISO 800 to start with - if I'm shooting action I might go to 400 - if its darker weather maybe even 800. If I'm shooting action indoors 1600 or 32000 as starting points.

The key is that I'm accepting that the ISO IS part of the triangle and it is something I can change. Furthermore if I try to work with it on the lowest of the low all the time I end up having to raise it up more often than not. Then again I tend to shoot action more so than static subjects; so my method might differ from your normal subjects. Certainly under my way of thinking many landscape photographers are still going to go for that lower ISO because ths situation won't often demand more.

The core is to learn not to fear raising the ISO. Noise you can deal with and presentation online or in print further reduces noise levels (a lot of that haze gets totally lost in print or digital display unless you are cropping shots very significantly).



Remember 1/focal length is only a guideline. Good posture and holding - learning to lean on things for support; using a tripod; weather (strong wind); body strength; fatigue etc... In general some people will find that they can shoot with slower speeds and others will need faster. IT also increases more so with longer lenses - a 600mm might in "theory" be ok at 1/600sec but many might find they need a much faster shutter speed.

 

[Bryston3bsst]

My biggest problem right now is that the force required to click my button tends to shake my camera surprisingly hard, and its really softening up my pictures when I'm kind of in the moment taking candid pictures.

This is kind of concerning. You don't mention what kind of camera you're using but I have shot quite a few in the past 45 years and one thing I've never run into is a shutter button that is so hard to press that it causes the camera to shake. I'm wondering if in fact the shutter button is fine but maybe you're tensing your hand, and in turn, the rest of your arm to the point where it seems the shutter is hard to release. If you set your camera on the table and just reach down and press the shutter it should require very little effort to release. If it doesn't, then I would say you have a problem with your equipment that needs to be addressed. You don't need to have a death grip on your camera to hold it steady. To the contrary, you should be quite relaxed when shooting.

Otherwise, Overread's post is very good as is the little video and should be a big help to you.

 

[floatingby]

The key is that I'm accepting that the ISO IS part of the triangle and it is something I can change.

I tend to believe that also, but it doesn't seem to be a belief of camera makers, they all seem to make this setting the most cumbersome to acces possible, either buried deep in menus or placing the dedicated button, if there is one, in the worst possible place.

 

[Ysarex]

Missing the step in there where you use the light meter (in what metering mode?) to determine the exposure. How specifically are you determining that an exposure is a good exposure.

Joe

 

[Jasii]

Your's are pertinent Q's that we all once had and grew up with.
Handle your cam like an extension of yourself and it will learn to cuddle around you.
Use that shutter button half pressed and than all the way ever so softly. When I started out I would practice with the cam just the way people would with drawing their guns in the Ol' West and do tells us what camera you are using please?

 

[astroNikon]

I roll my finger back on the shutter.

But what I notice is a lot of people who use automatic also use auto focusing system, in which they allow the camera to focus on what ever it thinks the subject is. Which usually is the culprit on why something is out of focus. ==> Getting Sharper Images - an Understanding of Focus Modes

I used to try to use as low ISO as possible. But I also shot film a long time ago where you could NOT adjust ISO - ASA without changing the film.

But I learned since getting into digital that AUTO ISO is actually your friend. You just have to set a Max limit on what you think may start introducing noise.

I then select the appropriate Aperture for the DOF that I want, and the appropriate Shutter for the speed that I want for the situation.
and viola, ISO balances it all out and I get the shot that I want. In other situations I also set the ISO. But once you start forcing yourself into Manual and understanding the use of ISO the easier and more flexible it all becomes.

 

[soufiej]

So I'm weening myself off automatic. Still use it in a pinch, but I'm taking pictures constantly going from shadow to light, trying to get the perfect exposure and field of depth as fast as possible.

This is the mental process I use for shooting in manual. I'm looking for constructive criticism to make it better.

1. I determine the white balance of the shot. Inside orange, shady blue, or sunlight yellow. I either set the white balance to counteract it, or decide to keep the natural tone of the shot.

2. Now I set the iso all the way down. If possible I want to ignore it. In fact, I don't think of iso as being part of the 'trinity' of exposure. To me its an extra option.

3. I try to fill the frame with the shot. So I zoom if necessary and this gives me my focal length.

4. I decided what kind of depth of field I want and need. If I'm not sure if I can get a perfect shallow depth of field, I stop it down a bit

5. Now I put my shutter speed at a minimum to my focal length. So if I zoomed to 200mm I put my shutter speed at 1/200

6. Now I think about how bright the light is in the environment and how wide my aperture. I speed up the shutter speed to darken it if its too bright.

7. Now, if I have my shutter speed at my minimum in accordance with my focal length... but its still too dark... I might open up my aperture a bit. If my aperture is open all the way or I need to get a large depth of field... I finally go to my iso.


This is pretty much the process I go through when I shoot. Once I get a good exposure, I generally try to only use my shutter speed to adjust for exposure. I also aim low. In other words, I much rather underexpose the image, than overexpose the image, because its a lot easier for me to fix shadows in camera raw than blown highlights. Even though I try to just ignore my iso I tend to use it a lot indoors. It amazes me how much dimmer indoor lighting is than outdoor lighting even though it seems similar to my eyes. Also, it amazes me how I can look at a shaded area under a tree and the grass out in the sun right next to it and see both clearly, while if I take a picture of one or the other I can only expose for one at a time. The dynamic range of my eyes is sooooo much better than my camera.

Right now I'm trying to train my hand and mind to kind of go through this process as fast as possible and do it with as little thought as possible. Trying to get a natural feel for it.

My biggest problem right now is that the force required to click my button tends to shake my camera surprisingly hard, and its really softening up my pictures when I'm kind of in the moment taking candid pictures.

So... whatcha guys think? What am I doing wrong? How can I do this better?

Certain hobbies - some of which can turn into occupations - tend to have certain myths within them. IMO when it comes to photography there are two which seem to show up with great regularity.

The first is, shooting in full manual mode is how to do this like a pro.

The second would be, keeping ISO to an absolute minimum because that's what the pro's do too.

In either case, the pro's probably have much better equipment than you do so what they do isn't of that much importance to your photography.

These are hand in glove thinking processes; if you believe one, you automatically accept the other must fit. Neither IMO makes a lot of sense for most hobbyist shooters. You can't harm anything by trying either of these ideas but they won't necessarily lead you to better photographs.

While I understand you are trying to formulate a method here, you also seem to be going through a lot of decision making to get to what should be a rather simple solution.

White balance is more a matter of the subject than the lighting IMO. Today's cameras all have auto WB that does a fairly good job 95% of the time. If you're shooting in RAW capture, WB isn't that important anyway. If I'm shooting in Jpeg, then I consider what I want done with the subject. Here I tend to go along with Ken Rockwell's advice; How to Set White Balance Value and saturation being more important than color alone. Or I have my Custom Color presets which have been built with consideration towards my camera's tendencies to manipulate colors.

I seldom use full manual exposure mode since I find it wastes time for me. The very back and forth thinking you exhibit it is where I see a lot of student photographers spinning their wheels.

I began photography with film cameras and they were much more limited in their acceptable light range than most of today's digital cameras will be. We generally shot with ASA 100, 200 or 400 film and worked within those confines. As we shot in the last moments of the golden hour we rushed to complete a roll of 100 or 200 film so we could switch to a roll of 400 to get those last few shots. The visible improvements of a low ASA film were quite easily recognized back then, even with drugstore processing. No one had an ASA 12800 film.

Today's cameras make ISO much more flexible, IMO, and one of the first thoughts I have when shooting in anything other than bright midday sun. In fact, I see shutter speed and aperture as the least flexible legs of the triangle since I depend on one of those two values to get the shot I see in my head.

A moving object requires a faster shutter speed and, if I miss with that value, there's nothing I can do in post production to save a blurred image.

DOF is DOF and I determine that value as I am assessing the shot I'll take and mentally setting the limits for what will be allowed to fade away into out of focus range by my framing of the shot.

I shoot primarily in Av mode since DOF is one thing I can't easily fix in the computer. It's also how I see the shot; what's in front of the subject and what's behind the subject. Therefore, for the most part DOF is the least flexible of my values.

I will prefer to keep my focal length down in order to maintain DOF. I will move - as in, actually walk towards or away from the subject - in order to keep DOF to a manageable level. As I shoot more and more with primes and less and less with zooms, the latter becomes even more the case. In any case, I'm thinking of the finished shot as I work my camera.

That's a bit of a lesson that I think a lot of hobbyists need to address as it comes up. What is your finished shot going to look like?

Not so much in just the framing though that's obviously important but also very flexible if you've allowed yourself the ability to crop at a later date. If you've not considered your eventual print and you've ignored aspect ratios, then you may be very disappointed with framing for the shot and not for the print. Even more so if your vf doesn't provide 100% coverage.

I've cropped many a shot down - waaaay down - to arrive at an image that wasn't fully in my viewfinder. Therefore, I'm thinking how will I print this shot as I'm lining up my settings for the shot. That makes ISO the most flexible of the three exposure values. It's also the value I set first when shooting in anything other than midday sun.


At less than 8 X 10, ISO is a negligible value IMO. Digital sensor noise can be reduced or taken to the level where it is not a deterrent to a good shot. At larger than 8 X 10 print sizes - which I seldom do - noise is going to be obscured by the viewing distance away from the print.

"Sharpness" (the reason for using base line ISO, right?) is, IMO, a trap many student photographers fall into as they become more and more aware of what the reviewers review.

Reviewer's talk about sharpness.

And they show how in a lab setting ISO impacts ultimate sharpness.

Their fixations on these two values makes them fixations for the student when the student can't yet see it is the image and not the results of the camera that really matter.

Objective reviewing is what occurs most frequently with cameras and lenses and it is the least valuable way to think of your gear IMO.

But, then, I've always be a subjectivist when it comes to these things. And, personally, I don't give a flip about what the objectivists think.

Even with a decent prime lens, the light will fall off towards the corners of the image and the sharpness and color accuracy will fade. I know this and I also know only the objectivist photographers - those pixel peepers or the guys paid to notice such things - actually see into the corners of the image.

98% of the people who would see my photos will never look deeply into the corners, they will focus on the center of the shot and only move from that spot if my composition directs their eyes away from the center. IMO I use that fact to my advantage.

I'm not looking to shoot photos for anything other than my own enjoyment so I don't do somethings a "professional" might need to take into account. YMMV when thinking about an image as I do.

WB = Very flexible. I shoot mostly in RAW so I seldom worry about it. I probably use three WB settings at most.

Shutter speed = Flexible, but only after I determine DOF. Mostly, determined by the camera unless I absolutely need to stop movement.

Aperture = Least flexible. This is how I see the shot before I take the shot.

ISO = First value I set when out of midday sun. I have a good idea what my camera's limits are for ISO and I never exceed them. However, if I'm shooting in the shade of late day sun or an overcast day, I will first run my camera up to 400-800 ISO. Seldom higher, that's typically sufficient. Set aperture and observe the camera's chosen shutter speed shooting in Av. Adjust exposure compensation.

I can adjust exposure, remove most noise and sharpen the image in the computer. I can also crop the image to move the viewer's eye to the part of the shot that's of prime importance and which will minimize the rest of the image and it's defects. While I make the attempt to get the best shot in my viewfinder and I don't tend to spend much time in production, I think ahead before I even aim the lens. And I think of the shot as entirely flexible until I make a print.


"My biggest problem right now is that the force required to click my button tends to shake my camera surprisingly hard, and its really softening up my pictures when I'm kind of in the moment taking candid pictures."

As noted, it shouldn't require extreme pressure to release the shutter. You are probably jabbing at the shutter release button. Simply depress the button and hold your finger down until the shot is complete.

Also, if your camera has a mirror lock up -assuming you are using a camera with a mirror - use that feature to remove any camera shake induced by the mirror hitting the back of the camera.

Try back button focus. Most digital cameras allow a button on the rear of the camera to be assigned as the focus lock button. (Whether this button also serves to lock exposure is determined in your menu.) By using BBF you have now eliminated the need to hold and recompose a shot with the front of camera shutter release. The front of camera button is now only a shutter release and you press it lightly (and hold it down) to actuate the shutter.

You can, depending on the shot, use the self timer function of your camera. Press, release, stabilize the camera body and wait two seconds for the shutter to flip. This works nicely if your camera is mounted on a tripod.

You can also set your camera to continuous shooting mode. Press and hold the shutter release to get maybe five or six shots. They're free with any digital camera, delete the ones you dislike later. By using continuous mode your chances of not moving the camera by depressing the release are more likely to turn out an acceptable image since you'll get in the habit of simply holding the release down until the shot is completed.

Of course, always make sure your shutter speed is not so long that it contributes to camera shake.

 

[angelo_lightning]

Awesome feedback guys.

I have a d3300

1. I dont get like crazy blur or anything from hitting the shutter button. Just every once in a while I hit it a little hard and it softens an image. Which irritates me.

2. When do I meter the light? I look through the viewfinder and there is lightmeter guage in there. When I'm adjusting the shutter speed with the command dial I try to get it so there is one bar on the left. This means its like... a bit underexposed. I do this because often when I get a perfect exposure in bright lighting, there will be something that is blown out. Like a highlight on a piece of metal or a spot in the sky or something. So the past couple days I've had some success doing to like that.

One of the reasons I dont like changing the iso unless its a last resort is yeah.... its hard. When I'm looking through the viewfinder, its really easy and intuitive to adjust the shutter speed with the command dial. Changing the aperture is pretty awkward. Changing the shutter speed? Sheesh. I have to like press a function button the left side of the camera just below the flash button. Half the time I accidentally hit the flash button which is sooooo irritating. So changing the iso is like a big deal for me.

I'm pretty sure though that soon I'll get a pretty good instinct as to when the lighting is just too dim and I need to bump up my iso. So lets say I walk into a dimly lit room. Ill just bump my iso up to 800 first and then do everything else. Or maybe if I'm doing some fast action photography, which never really have, I'll just bump the iso up first, then bump the shutter speed way down. In fact, now that I think about it... maybe I'll just keep my iso at like 400 or something, that way giving myself faster shutter speeds all the time, giving myself sharper images.

Yeah... I'll do that today. I'll just keep my iso on 400 n see how that feels. lol

 

[JustJazzie]

Awesome feedback guys.

I have a d3300

1. I dont get like crazy blur or anything from hitting the shutter button. Just every once in a while I hit it a little hard and it softens an image. Which irritates me.

2. When do I meter the light? I look through the viewfinder and there is lightmeter guage in there. When I'm adjusting the shutter speed with the command dial I try to get it so there is one bar on the left. This means its like... a bit underexposed. I do this because often when I get a perfect exposure in bright lighting, there will be something that is blown out. Like a highlight on a piece of metal or a spot in the sky or something. So the past couple days I've had some success doing to like that.

One of the reasons I dont like changing the iso unless its a last resort is yeah.... its hard. When I'm looking through the viewfinder, its really easy and intuitive to adjust the shutter speed with the command dial. Changing the aperture is pretty awkward. Changing the shutter speed? Sheesh. I have to like press a function button the left side of the camera just below the flash button. Half the time I accidentally hit the flash button which is sooooo irritating. So changing the iso is like a big deal for me.

I'm pretty sure though that soon I'll get a pretty good instinct as to when the lighting is just too dim and I need to bump up my iso. So lets say I walk into a dimly lit room. Ill just bump my iso up to 800 first and then do everything else. Or maybe if I'm doing some fast action photography, which never really have, I'll just bump the iso up first, then bump the shutter speed way down. In fact, now that I think about it... maybe I'll just keep my iso at like 400 or something, that way giving myself faster shutter speeds all the time, giving myself sharper images.

Yeah... I'll do that today. I'll just keep my iso on 400 n see how that feels. lol

I'm sorry I don't have time to go through this entire thread but I skimmed and saw that you were a nikon shooter. With a newer camera I'd be surprised if you couldn't go up to ISO 1600 at least.

What I wanted to mentin was that with the nikons I had used, I can go into the menu and select "auto ISO" and cap it at the highest ISO I a. Comfortabl with. I would Imagine yours has this feature as we'll. It is one. My favorite features on nikon because I am able to virtually ignore is 90% of the time and focus on getting a sharp shot with ss and aperture.

You may want to check into that!

 

[soufiej]

Awesome feedback guys.

I have a d3300

Yeah... I'll do that today. I'll just keep my iso on 400 n see how that feels. lol

You can do that.

But I think you'll learn less that way.

Try setting the ISO to auto and establish a max ISO slightly above the point where your camera tends to add too much noise. This is typically around 1200 ISO.

Remember, print size is less likely to show digital noise than your 22" monitor will. If you don't intend to print at a 22" diagonal measurement and view the image from 12" away, what your monitor shows you isn't the reality of a print.

Your printer probably has a resolution limit of about 300 dip. This is the final resolution of any shot as printed.

Pay attention to what the camera does. When it ramps up ISO and when it doesn't.

This may require a shooter's journal. Detail the shot with information that won't appear in your shooting data. Weather, light values, was it necessary to stop the motion of, say, a flower moving in the breeze, etc.

Use your journal as a secondary part of your evaluation of your shots when viewing them that night. Many modern DSLR's also allow a short few seconds of video to be recorded before you take the shot. If it's more convenient to use this method of recording shot data, take advantage of the features your camera offers which are useful and not just frivolous.

As you review your shot, your shooting data and your journal according to shot number as recorded in your camera, try to establish some rules for setting ISO manually as you consider a shot.

When would you have ramped up ISO? When would you have tried to take the shot with a lower ISO?

How well would your plan have worked in each situation? What latitude in the exposure triangle might there be for a similar shot? Record this information in your journal.

Get an idea of how ISO actually affects your photography with your camera and your subjects and your style of photography.

Eventually, take control of the values of exposure but with a more educated plan in mind.

 

[SCraig]

2. When do I meter the light? I look through the viewfinder and there is lightmeter guage in there. When I'm adjusting the shutter speed with the command dial I try to get it so there is one bar on the left...

Then you are still effectively shooting in an automatic mode and only setting the values manually. Might just as well select aperture or shutter priority and let the camera do it for you. No real difference.

The point of using manual mode is knowing WHEN and WHY to use manual. There are situations when it is preferable to one of the automatic modes, but simply "Centering The Needle" isn't one of them. If, for whatever reason makes you feel good, you are determined to use your camera like that then reverse the operation. Look at a scene, decide on a shutter speed / aperture / ISO combination that you think is appropriate, set your camera that way, then compare it to the meter's reading.

Personally I'm lazy and like using the automatic modes. My cameras have multiple modes available for a reason, and I use the one that is most appropriate to what I'm shooting at a particular time. It might be aperture priority, it might be shutter priority, it might be manual. Depends on what I need.

 

[dennybeall]

Then you are still effectively shooting in an automatic mode and only setting the values manually. Might just as well select aperture or shutter priority and let the camera do it for you. No real difference

This doesn't make a bit of sense to me. All the modes available have a time and a place where they are the best for that photographer to use to achieve what they want at the time.
The meter tells you what settings you need. Nobodies eyes can tell the proper exposure. You can guess based on experience and set the camera and then use the meter to see how close you came. Based on what you want in the shot you adjust speed and or aperture but the meter tells you if you've got it right.
We all have our preferred way to work and any way that works is the right way.

 

[table1349]

The meter has no clue what it is you are trying to accomplish. It does not have the ability to read the scene and adjust for what it is you want to high light. It is giving you the this is what looks like the middle of the road exposure. If all you are doing is adjusting for middle of the road, that is what you can also accomplish with the auto modes as that it what the camera is trying to do. When you have a good practiced understanding of exposure it is not a guess to expose say a 1/3rd stop under or 2/3rds of a stop over to accomplish the exposure you are looking for. As stated before, the use of manual mode is knowing when and why to use it, and I would add that is true only if you understand HOW to use it.