Using non IS canon Lenses

[just x joey]

can u shoot handheld and get good shots with a non IS lens? like the canon 85mm 1.8 and the sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 DC. i need to know, because i shoot mostly handheld, like skateboarders, bands, and stuff, and im going to be buying these 2 lenses and a 30d body soon, thank you.

 

[Peanuts]

Do remember that 'back in the day' there was no IS - so yes it is very possible. The IS essentially gives you that extra stop, stop and a half, ofprotection from ahnd shake. The lenses you listed are both very fast (at least the 85mm is. The sigma is slower on the longer end) It all really depends on your lighting situation.

 

[just x joey]

hm, well i shoot nice with a canon FTB that doesnt even have autofocus, so i suppose ill be fine? i will probably be shooting in low light conditions... with only the built in flash until i can save up enough for the 430ex.

 

[Peanuts]

If you can get results on your FTB it won't be any different with the 30D other than you can review your results instantly.

 

[just x joey]

rad, thank you!

 

[Peanuts]

I never used film for a long period of time so I am certain someone else can help you more in this area - but the primary difference (other than instant feedback) is the latitude of the two mediums. Film has a significantly wider latitude then digital, therefore it is easier to blow out highlights. Otherwise, it is pretty similar.

 

[Sw1tchFX]

Just wrap you strap around your arms, keep your elbows in, and stand firm and you'll be ok.

 

[Big Mike]

The rule of thumb for handheld shooting of 35mm film is that you want your shutter speed to be faster than the reciprocal of the focal length. So at 85mm you will want the shutter speed to be at least 1/85 (1/90).

Now with these digital SLR cameras with sensors smaller than 35mm film...they say that you should use the crop factor for this rule as well...so for a 30D, the factor is 1.6...so for handheld shooting with an 85mm lens, you will want to use a shutter speed of at least 1/136.

With a maximum aperture of F1.8...the 85mm should have little problem getting good shutter speeds in decent light. This is where slower lenses are not very good. A lens with a maximum aperture of F5.6...will really struggle to give you fast shutter speeds.

That why I recommend the 17-50 F2.8 over the 17-70 F2.8-4.5...because when shooting at 70mm, you will want a shutter speed of 1/112...which will be harder to get at F4.5 than at F2.8.


The advantage of IS is that it allows you to use a slower shutter speed that you would without it...and still get sharper images. I believe that the specs say that older IS lenses will give you 2 to three stops and the newer IS lenses will give you 3 to 4 stops. So that means that, at say 85mm...with IS, you could expect to get sharp handheld shots at 1/20.

Of course, this is all a rule of thumb...some people are steadier than others...and some people have better technique than others.

 

[just x joey]

wow, lol thanks mike, i had no idea about all that math i just guessd what would look good (guess shutter speed, fstop, and iso) and the pics usually come out nice, now that i know about math... hmmm it sucks its not the same for film as it is for digital otherwise, man the math wuld be easier. so how exactly do u get to 1/136 sec sutter speed from 85mm, what do u do? divide 1.6 by 85? ahh toobad the 30d dont come with a calculator built in

 

[Iron Flatline]

The rule of thumb for handheld shooting of 35mm film is that you want your shutter speed to be faster than the reciprocal of the focal length. So at 85mm you will want the shutter speed to be at least 1/85 (1/90).

Now with these digital SLR cameras with sensors smaller than 35mm film...they say that you should use the crop factor for this rule as well...so for a 30D, the factor is 1.6...so for handheld shooting with an 85mm lens, you will want to use a shutter speed of at least 1/136.

I disagree, the crop factor should not be an issue in this particular calculation. The fact that you're losing some of the image along the edge does not affect the amount of glass the light has to travel through to create an exposure.

But to give my two cents to the question: you can absolutely shoot hand-held. Crank you're ISO up little, shoot fast and wide, and you'll get some great shots.

 

[just x joey]

so the crop isnt a factor??? phew that makes the math ALOT easier haha

 

[Big Mike]

I disagree, the crop factor should not be an issue in this particular calculation. The fact that you're losing some of the image along the edge does not affect the amount of glass the light has to travel through to create an exposure.

I have a hard time with this one. To me, it seems as though the crop factor should not be an issue with the shutter speed rule...but I got blasted when I tried to argue that point on Photo.net. They say that since the sensor is smaller, any blurriness due to movement is enlarged. I'm still not 100% on the logic of it...but one thing is for certain...a faster shutter speed is always better to reduce the effects of camera shake.

 

[Don Simon]

Accounting for crop factor or not, either way the theory may be good but in practice technique, and knowing what you can get away with from experience, is probably more useful. For example I know that with a 50mm on either film or digital I can usually get a fairly sharp shot at 1/30, and sometimes even lower, due to the weight distribution of that lens on that camera. Stick a longer telephoto lens on a small camera body (especially shooting vertically) however and I can use the rule of thumb and still get fairly bad camera shake.

 

[fmw]

I have a hard time with this one. To me, it seems as though the crop factor should not be an issue with the shutter speed rule...but I got blasted when I tried to argue that point on Photo.net. They say that since the sensor is smaller, any blurriness due to movement is enlarged. I'm still not 100% on the logic of it...but one thing is for certain...a faster shutter speed is always better to reduce the effects of camera shake.

I don't think so, Mike. The rule of thumb is based on focal length, not the sensor format or size of image circle or anything else. You use the same rule of thumb with a medium format camera. Having a bigger piece of film and a larger image circle doesn't suddenly make a telephoto lens less susceptible to camera shake. Nor does having a smaller sensor make it more so.

 

[Big Mike]

I'm still not sure...either way...:scratch:

I've always heard that the rule in question was for 35mm film/cameras and that it was different for MF.

Lets think about it in terms of the size of the movement. Lets say that the camera/lens shakes 1/16" during exposure. That is a small fraction, compared to the size of a 2.5x2.5 negative...but it's comparatively a much bigger movement to a APS-C sensor. So would that movement cause more of an effect on the smaller surface? Does that argument have any validity?

I read an article that said that the rule should be higher than the traditional speed/focal length...because our expectation of 'reasonable sharpness' has changed over the years...and probably quite a bit with digital. With digital, it's very common for people to judge an image's sharpness by looking at it at 100% or closer, on the screen. Back in the day, you had to make a large print or some optical magnification (loupe) to really examine a photo that closely. After all, focus and sharpness are based on 'reasonable sharpness'.