weird artefacts- possible lens flare?

w.pasman · Feb 25, 2007

A relative of mine encountered this weird artefacts in her photos.
Below a large part of the upper half of the photo (original was 4MPixel, it's a not-too-new point&shoot olympus camera).
There is one large disk, surrounded by three very small. Right top is another one. In the window is another one, and a bit lower (just outside this crop) in the window is a "duplicate" of the large disk.
Is it possible that this is lens flare??

I did some filtering (photoshop) on the large disk, giving the following:

Note that it is perfectly round and I don't see any other artefacts as lines, which would be commonly encountered with this kind of bright lens flare, if it is lens flare.

All lights in the room were dimmed, only the flash was a bright light source.

fmw · Feb 25, 2007

It is either a miniature Martian space craft or a new parasitic amoeba.

Sorry, I don't know what it is. To be a ghost image there would have to be a light source there.

Sw1tchFX · Feb 25, 2007

yeah, that's REALLY wierd. When was the last time you cleaned your lens?

hazzayoungn · Feb 25, 2007

ghosts in limbo

haunting the house

Garbz · Feb 25, 2007

Looks like one of 2 things, either a drop of water on the lens, or some fungus growing on one of the elements. Either way it is definitely dirty lens. If it were smoke in the room then you would be seeing more smaller ones, not just one big one and a few tiny ones.

Hertz van Rental · Feb 25, 2007

There are a couple more smaller artifacts in that image too by the look of things.
Is it film or digital?
Is that the whole image or just a section? If it's only a section can you post the whole thing?
There are a number of things that can produce weird marks on an image with film. I am discovering that there are a lot more with digital.
If you can answer my questions I'll give it my best shot.

Peanuts · Feb 25, 2007

I can't remember where I read it, but apparently water particles and the likes in the air will reflect the light from light and result in this little artifacts. Truth? I don't know.

w.pasman · Feb 26, 2007

Thanks for the feedback, I'm really puzzled by this one...

This is not my own photo, I will ask for permission to post the whole photo.

There are a couple more smaller artifacts in that image too by the look of things.
Is it film or digital?
Is that the whole image or just a section? If it's only a section can you post the whole thing?
There are a number of things that can produce weird marks on an image with film. I am discovering that there are a lot more with digital.
If you can answer my questions I'll give it my best shot.

This is digital, olympus 4MPix point&shoot, but I'm not entirely sure which model (xif info gives me three models...). I will ask again for that info.

It's about 60% of the top half of the original. It is at original dpi so not downscaled.

w.pasman · Feb 26, 2007

drop of water on the lens

I did not think of that yet.
I can imagine water to create a light spot but I fail to see how a drop of water could create concentric circles and 12-fold symmetry (notice the tiny spots at 12, 1, 2 and 3 o'clock around the large disk)

I found a few photos of someone having a droplet developing on his lens http://www3.gettysburg.edu/~marschal/clea/condensation.html
but this looks just like a drop, not at all like the artefacts in my images.

Alex_B · Feb 26, 2007

whatever it is , I can see at least 10 spots of varying sizes which look almost identical to the very prominent one scattered all over the image.

I never saw anything similar in any of my own images, be it film or digital.

Alex_B · Feb 26, 2007

hmm, i might remember from my microscopy days that water in between to glass plates can sometimes make funny fatterns similar to this

w.pasman · Feb 26, 2007

OK I got permissions to publish the originals

Here they are:

Here is the photo taken right(19 seconds) before it:

Hertz van Rental · Feb 26, 2007

There also seems to be a ghost image of the main 'blob' over towards bottom left.
The strange thing is they are both circular. If they were in front of the lens they would normally pick up the shape of the diaphragm, unless the lens is fully open. So it's possible that it is inside the lens. But a point and shoot tends to be sealed. So it's most likely that it's in front of the lens with full aperture.
The ghost image would indicate that light is bouncing off whatever it is and reflecting inside the camera...
And it's playing now you see it now you don't.
My best guess would be that it is something - most likely a little bubble of saliva (which would explain the paterns ) - on the front element and catching some light that is out of shot. Even a face to one side catching spill from the flash could do it. The light is missing the lens but just catching the object which is slightly proud of the lens.
The saliva would glow like a cat's eye and cause the ghost image through flare.
This is only a guess, you understand.

w.pasman · Feb 26, 2007

st guess would be that it is something - most likely a little bubble of saliva (which would explain the paterns ) - on the front element and catching some light that is out of shot. Even a face to one side catching spill from the flash could do it. The light is missing the lens but just catching the object which is slightly proud of the lens.
The saliva would glow like a cat's eye and cause the ghost image through flare.

Mmm I don't think that light from the flash can hit something right on the lens. It might be that flashlight reflected from a window more to the right (assuming there was any and that there was a curtain in front) might cause light reach the saliva.

Alternatively, would it be possible that something really tiny is floating in front of the lens, and that that is hit by the flash?

Still, both hypotheses don't really explain the additional reflections at 12,1,2 and 3 o'clock and the lighter reflections at the subsequent clock positions around the big disk. Unless maybe the tiny object would also have such a structure. Maybe one of those floating seeds??