Why all the NOISE?!

[Kydahl]

I shoot with a Nikon D3000, which I know is some-what of the more mediocre Nikon models.
I know a lot of Canon users who are able to photograph indoors with no use of flash & their images look great, simply by cranking up the ISO. However, anytime I turn my ISO past 200 I get so much noise and I HATE it. Do other Nikon models offer less noise? Is there some special trick I don't know about to prevent the noise?

 

[Vtec44]

Say what? Are you properly exposing the photos or are you pushing the exposure in post process? It should be good to around 3200 ISO before seeing a lot of noise.

Edit, for some reason I thought you said D3300 but it should be able to go past 200ISO without a lot of noise.

 

[wfooshee]

I don't think a D3000 is all that good noise-wise. My D5000 was useless (in my opinion) at 800 ISO. But pushing an underexposed image in software is a MUCH noisier result than simply raising the ISO enough for a proper exposure.

In other words, if you don't want to go past 200 but your shot is 2 stops too dark, brightening it up on the computer will look much worse than simply selecting 800 ISO in the first place and getting a proper exposure.

As for Canon vs Nikon, the lower-level cameras are generally noisier than the expensive ones, across both lines. The Nikon D750 and D810 are becoming renowned for excellent low-light results. But someone shooting with a T3 is probably not going to get any better results than you get with your D3000.

 

[Ysarex]

I shoot with a Nikon D3000, which I know is some-what of the more mediocre Nikon models.
I know a lot of Canon users who are able to photograph indoors with no use of flash & their images look great, simply by cranking up the ISO. However, anytime I turn my ISO past 200 I get so much noise and I HATE it. Do other Nikon models offer less noise? Is there some special trick I don't know about to prevent the noise?

Show us.

Joe

 

[SCraig]

Is there some special trick I don't know about to prevent the noise?

Yes, Expose To The Right

 

[Kydahl]

The attached image for example, (f 5.3, 1/80, ISO 800) - no post-processing.
My understanding is that when the subject is moving (like a toddler) you want to have a faster shutter, which makes the image darker, so you turn up the ISO.
In this case, the image is still underexposed, so the ISO should have been turned up even more, but its already really grainy to begin with.

 

[Kydahl]

also this one: (f 5.6, 1/30, ISO 1600) - some cropping

 

[robbins.photo]

The attached image for example, (f 5.3, 1/80, ISO 800) - no post-processing.
My understanding is that when the subject is moving (like a toddler) you want to have a faster shutter, which makes the image darker, so you turn up the ISO.
In this case, the image is still underexposed, so the ISO should have been turned up even more, but its already really grainy to begin with.

Ok, so the D3000 your dealing with a much older sensor, and older sensors are not nearly as good at noise reduction and shooting at higher ISO's as newer sensor will be - a D3200, for example, is capable of shooting at much higher ISO's than your 3000 before noise becomes noticeable,, for example.

Shutter speed is an important consideration, as is aperture. Faster lenses, say F2.8 or F1.8, will allow in a lot more light than a lens that say goes from 4-5.6. Lower aperture numbers et you shoot at lower ISO's at the same shutter speed because more light is getting in, however it also makes your depth of field more narrow so you need to keep that in mind when choosing your aperture.

Shutter speed of course, the slower the shutter speed the longer it stays open and the more light that gets in, but as you already mentioned the slower the shutter speed the more you run the risk of motion blur and possibly camera shake when your shutter speed drops low enough.

So it's always a trade off - a balancing act. You want to keep your shutter speed high enough but not too high, your aperture low enough but not too low, and hopefuly your ISO down to the pont where the outcome isn't two terribly noisy.

Newer cameras with better sensors can make a difference, as of course can shooting a full frame system as opposed to AFS-C, and faster glass is always a plus as well.

Worst case scenario though, well, a good flash is just tough to beat.

 

[Designer]

Yes, I see the noise. I think you can minimize it somewhat in post.

Please set your profile to "allow editing".

 

[The_Traveler]

You need to read about the exposure triangle and the limitations of realtively slow lenses.

 

[Designer]

Here's my version:

I don't know the cause of the blur on the left. I was able to take some of the noise out.

 

[Kydahl]

Thank you for the tips, I had actually just order

The attached image for example, (f 5.3, 1/80, ISO 800) - no post-processing.
My understanding is that when the subject is moving (like a toddler) you want to have a faster shutter, which makes the image darker, so you turn up the ISO.
In this case, the image is still underexposed, so the ISO should have been turned up even more, but its already really grainy to begin with.

Ok, so the D3000 your dealing with a much older sensor, and older sensors are not nearly as good at noise reduction and shooting at higher ISO's as newer sensor will be - a D3200, for example, is capable of shooting at much higher ISO's than your 3000 before noise becomes noticeable,, for example.

Shutter speed is an important consideration, as is aperture. Faster lenses, say F2.8 or F1.8, will allow in a lot more light than a lens that say goes from 4-5.6. Lower aperture numbers et you shoot at lower ISO's at the same shutter speed because more light is getting in, however it also makes your depth of field more narrow so you need to keep that in mind when choosing your aperture.

Shutter speed of course, the slower the shutter speed the longer it stays open and the more light that gets in, but as you already mentioned the slower the shutter speed the more you run the risk of motion blur and possibly camera shake when your shutter speed drops low enough.

So it's always a trade off - a balancing act. You want to keep your shutter speed high enough but not too high, your aperture low enough but not too low, and hopefuly your ISO down to the pont where the outcome isn't two terribly noisy.

Newer cameras with better sensors can make a difference, as of course can shooting a full frame system as opposed to AFS-C, and faster glass is always a plus as well.

Worst case scenario though, well, a good flash is just tough to beat.

I had actually JUST added my first low aperture lens to my cart the other day so hopefully that will help, & I've been considering an additional camera body anyways. I'm glad to hear that its an old camera thing & not a Nikon thing lol.
I'm certainly not one of those people who are afraid to use flash, I own a couple which I really like. Its just that the use of flash isn't always deemed appropriate & sometimes its nice to be able to snap photos while being a little more discreet.

 

[robbins.photo]

I had actually JUST added my first low aperture lens to my cart the other day so hopefully that will help, & I've been considering an additional camera body anyways. I'm glad to hear that its an old camera thing & not a Nikon thing lol.
I'm certainly not one of those people who are afraid to use flash, I own a couple which I really like. Its just that the use of flash isn't always deemed appropriate & sometimes its nice to be able to snap photos while being a little more discreet.

Yup, not a Nikon thing - Newer Nikons actually have better noise to iso ratio's than their Canon counterparts. I shoot a D7100 now, and it does a pretty respectable job for higher iso/low noise for an APS=C sensor.

And don't be afraid to use a flash - the number of people actually killed by them each year is shockingly low.. lol

 

[Dave442]

I have a friend that started out with the D3000, combined with the kit lens it is very not easy to get good results indoors without flash. I use a D200 and the ISO range is similar. It's not like photography did not exist before people could easily go into the 1000's on ISO.

a) Best option is to improve the lighting, near a window in the daytime is always good.
b) After that I would suggest picking up the 35mm f/1.8 DX lens. I have that and always put that on the camera when I expect to be indoors (there are a lot of other "fast" lens options, but this is cheap and small).
c) A flash is also something to consider, the built-in flash is usually not a good main light option.
d) Post processing RAW photos in a program like LightRoom can help, I think this has given some extra life to my old D200 as the newer programs have better image processing that the older camera bodies.
e) For exposure, make sure you don't have to recover a dark subject in post processing as that will just add more noise.
f) Don't zoom in on the computer and worry about noise, you will see noise that normal people (non-photographers) will not see.
g) A few terms: usually Grain is for film and Noise for digital; a lens with a "low" aperture number is a Large Aperture lens.

 

[Derrel]

A) Best option is to improve the lighting present at the time of the shot...that is, really, the KEY. I shot the Nikon D2x for years--it has the same issues with higher ISO settings; the sensor is just not that good in anything except good light, with a generous exposure, and at the lowest ISO range, like from 100 to 250. The D3000's sensor is similar; it's just not that adept at higher ISO settings, or in marginal lighting conditions, so you have almost no real leeway to cheat--you simply MUST expose generously, and keep the ISO levels lowish.