Working for my family's business.. Was my price fair?

TreCoe · Sep 9, 2014

I'm about to graduate college with a BFA in Photo. I live in Savannah. I'm still learning about pricing and would like some input into this situation that has put a lot of strife between family. I was asked by my brother-in-law to photograph his past projects that his company built (All Outdoor: patios, waterfalls, kitchens, fireplaces). My sister was in charge of working out the final payment. I had done some work prior for them before with no issues. This time, they said that we would work out the amount after the work was finished (Yes, I already see everyone shaking their heads). There were 10 locations, in which I had to schedule shoot times with the home owners, and some locations I had to come back to at night for lighting shots. It took over a week to photograph, seeing that the jobs were located all around Atlanta/Gainesville.

With shoot, editing, and 5 hours of drive time I threw in (drive time was way longer<Atlanta traffic!>, but, it's family) and time working with their web developer, I came up with 62 hours. Since this is family, I decided that a fair price would be $25 an hour; which comes to a total of $1550. About 80 photos are being used on the company's website indefinitely, and images are to be printed on a medium sized, box/utility trailer, for advertisement. I'm not factoring in any usage fees.
When I told my sister the price, she flipped out and sent this:

"Good morn. Your not in your career yet. But hopefully soon. And this is a learning curve. I pulled out my wedding book. I paid 2200$ for her all day. I got an engraved book. With 72 edited photos. The year after that she emailed if she could use one of my pic that she was up for the best photography in Atlanta. So I'm sure her prices are higher now. Just like when I started doing hair. My haircuts were 25 now they are 45. I should go up with all my experience. Any who I was never trying to down your work. I just assumed you would take some off for how much money we saved you when you were staying here. Looking around on the web, photographers charge by the job. Trevor no one is going to pay by the hour. No one could afford you. You do great work josh and I agree. I just think you should a little more research on how to price and delegate your time."

I'd just like to hear some thoughts concerning if I was in the right. I know this is a strange situation, but it really opened my eyes to how most people see photographers. **Her reference to saving me money was in relation to her cooking dinner while I was there. I love her.. but what a slap in the face.

dennybeall · Sep 9, 2014

$1550 for Sixty two (62) hours of your time, including expenses, seems like a fair price to me for someone just starting out. That covers your work but whether you owe some money for food or support is another question that should be addressed separately.

tirediron · Sep 9, 2014

Very fair! 62 hours of work and 80 images? I would have quoted well north of $10K!

KmH · Sep 9, 2014

Refer your sister/BIL to - For just the photographer's 1 scout day the charge was $750. Case Study: Producing A Successful Estimate | DigitalPhotoPro.com

No. You are not in the right, but you cut them one hell of a deal.
A wedding is retail photography. What you did was commercial photography. The 2 have very different business/pricing models because wedding photos don't generally get used for commercial purposes. If your sister's wedding photographer had had a contract that included a model release she would not have needed your sisters permission to use images of your sister/BIL.

Classic fail by not doing basic, standard business paperwork and business practices - a written estimate, negotiating the price, and stating that agreed upon price in a contract before you did the work.

A year of use licensing 80 images for the web site is alone worth well over $5,000.
My 1/2 day commercial rate was $1600 and didn't include travel time or mileage. My full day rate was $3000. So 5 days would have been $15,000.

Even if you are new to the business, what you charge should not be very much lower than median standard pricing for commercial work in the Atlanta area.
There is even Assignment and Stock photography pricing software - like fotoQuote Pro 6.
You might also visit - Business Resources | American Society of Media Photographers

vintagesnaps · Sep 10, 2014

Seems low for commercial work, but it does involve family... I suppose you might have to work this out the best you can at this point, then move on to other opportunities from here. If nothing else maybe you can show your family (with some resources to support your pricing) what they would have had to pay a professional commercial photographer for that amount of work - and not just the hours, the amount of usage that they would have had to license. Too bad they didn't get estimates from commercial photographers in your area to compare, that may have helped them realize what the cost would be for that type and amount of work.

I've done sports/events and took pictures at games for immediate family (nephews' school sports) but getting into commercial work seems much more than an occasional youth sports game. Photographers I know that do this full time had to make it clear to family that this is their job, just like if they were running their own business in any type work. Maybe you'll need to establish some guidelines or boundaries especially once you're out of school if you're going to do work in photography.

I use resources from ASMP too that Keith linked, or you could maybe try Photo District News (PDN) Photo Magazine | Professional Photography Industry News and Resources for info. on commercial photography.

The_Traveler · Sep 10, 2014

First mistake was proceeding without a clear understanding.
Clearly, in return for whatever they have given you, they expected a nominal payment.
They thought they were doing you a favor and also getting some work at a low price.

If I were in this situation, I'd write it off as a huge mistake on your part.

TreCoe · Sep 11, 2014

Thank you for the feedback, everyone. I agree about it being a huge mistake not to have a clear understanding to begin with. Live and learn. I will definitely look up the pricing software.. sounds like that would have been the best way to explain to my sister after I showed her an established pricing method so that she would have understood that I was being fair. That was and is the biggest hurdle in her mind.. After it's all said and done I believe she was expecting somewhere in the price of $900-1000. I even spent another 7 hours last night reordering where all the photos go on the website along with extra photo additions in categories where I saw was lacking. Oh.. family.

Anyone have any decent website referrals I could send her that might help alleviate this pricing misunderstanding? I've tried to find a few that would shine light on professional photographer practices but the ones I found seemed a bit complicated for someone who's not in the business.

robbins.photo · Sep 11, 2014

Ok, well, my advice? Forget the websites or trying to "educate" your sister on pricing. Apologize to her and tell her that you had thought it was a fair price based on the research you did but that you'll be more than happy to do the work for free. If she insists on paying you the only price you should quote from here should be "Whatever you think is fair". Clients come and go, but you only have one sister.

The_Traveler · Sep 11, 2014

TreCoe said:
Oh.. family.
.

sorry, the only family member at fault here is you.
it was up to you to manage expectations from a client and you didn't do it well enough.
Along with Robbins, I suggest you give them an apology for not talking about it first and give them the work as a gift and learn from it.